Worlds of Design: Gun vs. Sword

Lanchester’s Power [Linear and Square] Laws mean that combat in science fiction RPGs will usually be fundamentally different than combat in fantasy RPGs. Or the designer will have to somehow compensate, as in Star Wars.

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Image by Andrea Wierer from Pixabay

F. W. Lanchester, a polymath, inventor, and co-founder of operations research (a subfield of applied mathematics), examined before and during World War I the effects of melee and firepower in attritional combat. This examination was part of Lanchester’s Power Laws. Here we’re discussing how these differences mean that combat in fantasy RPGs, as compared with science fiction RPGs, will usually be fundamentally different unless the designer somehow compensates, as in Star Wars.

Lanchester calculated that in attritional melee the strength of a force is proportional to its number, because there is no action at a distance (“Lanchester’s Linear Law”). It amounts to a 1 vs. 1 environment. In an era of firepower, where military units can act at a distance, the strength of a force in attritional combat is proportional to the square of its numbers. (Hence, “Lanchester’s Square Law.”)

For example, in a melee of 5 vs 10 (or 5,000 vs 10,000), in the time it takes the 5 to inflict one damage, the 10 will inflict two damage (or 1,000 and 2,000 damage). In a firepower situation, the 5 have a relative strength of 25, while the 10 have a relative strength of 100, or 1 to 4. So in the time it takes the 5 to inflict one damage, the 10 will inflict four.

Thinking in immediately practical terms, imagine a typical sword/axe/club melee in an RPG versus a typical pistol and rifle and grenade fight today, and more in a future of blasters. (Keep in mind, the monsters we often fight are also melee weapons, in effect.) Without the effects of fantasy superheroes, the melee is man-against-man, and even a great swordsman cannot dominate a big melee. In the fight of today or the future, a man with a ranged weapon, especially an automatic weapon or an explosive-projecting weapon, can kill dozens in a short time.

A designer of a science fiction RPG faces a problem; firepower-based combat must be very different from melee combat, and probably less satisfying for the players. What can the author/designer do to solve this problem plausibly?

Star Wars compensates for this with the Jedi and light sabers. An adequately trained Jedi with a light saber can block huge numbers of blaster bolts without fail (even though it’s physically impossible if three shots are on target at the same time). He/she can use their light saber to overcome opposing armor and other factors associated with advanced weapons technology, right down to cutting through steel bulkheads. The more or less artificial scarcity of light sabers assures that few soldiers have these advantages, quite apart from the Jedi’s Force powers. Of course, Star Wars Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn, either, nor do they use automatic weapons and explosives much.

In many ways, you can think of melee vs firepower as the difference between knife fights and automatic/semi-automatic gunfights. The movie Starship Troopers just ignores tanks and aircraft in order to provide a more visceral melee-like experience as troops fight monsters at short range and hand-to-hand. “Let’s ignore our invulnerable stuff and only bring a knife to the knife fight.” Duh. I think of E. R. Burroughs’ Barsoom stories, where many melees took place in a land with very long-range rifles and explosive bullets, because of “honor” - it was dishonorable to escalate a swordfight to a gunfight. This is one way that an author or designer can compensate for firepower: just don’t use it (except for ship-to-ship combat).

Back to fantasy. What about archery? Standard archery is much closer to melee than firepower, owing to short range, slow action (crossbows), and ammunition limitations. When English longbowmen dominated battles in the Hundred Years War*, they used a weapon that could be fired rapidly by skilled archers, yet use a large supply of ammunition because England was mobilized to mass produce (and transport) arrows. After the development of muskets, longbows would still have been a better weapon given skilled archers and a massive supply of arrows; but musket ammunition was far more compact and easily produced, and it was far easier to train a man to fire a musket adequately, than to fire a longbow rapidly.

Where fantasy moves into the realms of firepower is magic-users using fireballs, lightning bolts, and similar area effect damage spells. Which may help us understand why spellcasters can be the “ace in the hole” and can dominate a battle. Dragon fire may have similar effects.

In other words, there’s rarely a pure melee or pure firepower skirmish situation in games. Yet the higher you move on the spectrum from tactical to strategic, the more Lanchester’s Linear and Square Laws take effect, even though his mathematics only applied to a specific kind of battle. I have simplified the specific circumstances of the Laws for this short piece. You can get more detail from the Wikipedia article cited above.

I’m sure readers can provide many other examples of ways authors and designers have returned science fiction skirmishes to melee parameters.

*Reference: Bernard Cornwell’s excellent historical novels about the battles of Crecy and Agincourt. The protagonist is an English longbowman.
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
Daggers should often be deadlier than represented. I have a old FBI pdf about handgun wounding factors, most handguns hit with the power of a baseball. Where Hollywood over represents the power of guns is that the knock people back, when in reality, the bullet would pass through the target, and someone would just fold forward, as our natural stance is forward.
Knockback is a real phenomenon, but it's not the bullet pushing; it's the body's reaction to the trauma that knocks one back.
Also, the claim about a bullet is wrong on its face. A typical fastball (~80 mph) is under 100 Joules, and the peak is about 120; a 22LR, one of the lowest energy weapons in use, is 115 to 125 J (depending upon a number of design factors).
Most handguns have muzzle energies from 200 to 500 J; many longarms are in the 1000 J+ range. The heaviest pistols are in the 2000 J range (.454 Cassul, .44 Mag). The 5.56 Nato is around 1700 J in chamber, and 1500 J muzzle...

Small caliber bullets vs peak fastballs (the record was 105.1 MPH): most small arms are going to be delivering more than 2x the energy, and in under 1 cm², versus over 25 cm² for the baseball.

It's not the energy that hurts, it's the concentration of the energy that injures.
 

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You are exactly right in that it is how combat is modeled to where it's representation matters, personally I find all RPG combat to be an abstraction.

Certainly, and the goal is not to simulate real combat at all, generally, but heroic genre fiction.


Modern military shoulder arms are interesting in that they are more designed to wound over killing, where the most deadly rifle is the American Civil War muskets.

I'm not sure I agree with either point. Mid 19th Century rifled muskets were indeed quite deadly but the rifle bullets designed in the late 19th Century smokeless powder era were roughly designed to replicate their performance, albeit with a smaller bullet needed due to the massively increased performance of smokeless powder. The ballistics are markedly different, with ACW muskets being slow with heavy bullets and a smokeless powder rifle (e.g,. a Lee-Enfield or Mauser) being much faster. There were marked improvements to the bullets in the early 19th Century, as well.

One big reason to downsize from 7.62mm to 5.56mm was to allow an infantryman to carry a lot of ammo---recall they're usually carrying belts of machine-gun ammo and/or mortar rounds. The real killer on the modern battlefield was judged to be artillery and crew-served weapons like the machine-gun or mortar, with the role of the infantry rifle being primarily for suppression and defense of these.

I suspect the notion that modern military weapons are designed to wound is rather an urban legend but I'd definitely like for someone who has expertise to comment.


AD&D did ok with firearms, if one wants to think of them as late 15th-16th century person carrying a brace of six or so single shot pistols, as what is seen in drawings of that era. Two shots per round, 1d6 or 1d8 damage, until no more pistols, then it's drawn swords.

Indeed, and in my still running after all these years 2E game guns feature prominently. I have some classics of the era: The PC who's most into them indeed has several pistols and I've let him take his end of round attack with a pistol if he wants so as to encourage his use; he's going to get a clockwork pistol soon. Enemies often have a team of a shooter and one or more loaders.


Once into machine guns then it's just a save to hit the dirt and avoid the hail of bullets, with the machine gunner saving versus a jam or running out of ammo. Except at the same time it has little relavance to D&D.

AFAIK, machine-guns are rarely used in sustained fire, although during World War I that happened at times with the water-cooled machine-guns of the time. Generally speaking, they're used in short, controlled bursts to prevent the barrel from overheating and to avoid wasting ammo. If you dump a 100 round belt through a modern general purpose machine-gun you'll waste most of the ammo and hasten the demise of the barrel.

As to the relevance of archers, I often abstract a horde of archers as a Dex save of some sort so I can avoid having to deal with targeting or rolling all those dice, so if there were a lot of rapid fire weapons I'd do the same thing.
 

Knockback is a real phenomenon, but it's not the bullet pushing; it's the body's reaction to the trauma that knocks one back.
Also, the claim about a bullet is wrong on its face. A typical fastball (~80 mph) is under 100 Joules, and the peak is about 120; a 22LR, one of the lowest energy weapons in use, is 115 to 125 J (depending upon a number of design factors).
Most handguns have muzzle energies from 200 to 500 J; many longarms are in the 1000 J+ range. The heaviest pistols are in the 2000 J range (.454 Cassul, .44 Mag). The 5.56 Nato is around 1700 J in chamber, and 1500 J muzzle...

Small caliber bullets vs peak fastballs (the record was 105.1 MPH): most small arms are going to be delivering more than 2x the energy, and in under 1 cm², versus over 25 cm² for the baseball.

It's not the energy that hurts, it's the concentration of the energy that injures.

Shooters calculator puts a baseball at 128 joules, roughly close to a .22's 135; however, it's the frame of reference that counts, which is what the statement is about. Being that the wound cavity is more important than total energy.

People fall forward because our stance is balanced forward. When Hollywood shows someone being knocked back, they are wearing a harness with a cable to pull them backwards.
 

Certainly, and the goal is not to simulate real combat at all, generally, but heroic genre fiction.




I'm not sure I agree with either point. Mid 19th Century rifled muskets were indeed quite deadly but the rifle bullets designed in the late 19th Century smokeless powder era were roughly designed to replicate their performance, albeit with a smaller bullet needed due to the massively increased performance of smokeless powder. The ballistics are markedly different, with ACW muskets being slow with heavy bullets and a smokeless powder rifle (e.g,. a Lee-Enfield or Mauser) being much faster. There were marked improvements to the bullets in the early 19th Century, as well.

One big reason to downsize from 7.62mm to 5.56mm was to allow an infantryman to carry a lot of ammo---recall they're usually carrying belts of machine-gun ammo and/or mortar rounds. The real killer on the modern battlefield was judged to be artillery and crew-served weapons like the machine-gun or mortar, with the role of the infantry rifle being primarily for suppression and defense of these.

I suspect the notion that modern military weapons are designed to wound is rather an urban legend but I'd definitely like for someone who has expertise to comment.




Indeed, and in my still running after all these years 2E game guns feature prominently. I have some classics of the era: The PC who's most into them indeed has several pistols and I've let him take his end of round attack with a pistol if he wants so as to encourage his use; he's going to get a clockwork pistol soon. Enemies often have a team of a shooter and one or more loaders.




AFAIK, machine-guns are rarely used in sustained fire, although during World War I that happened at times with the water-cooled machine-guns of the time. Generally speaking, they're used in short, controlled bursts to prevent the barrel from overheating and to avoid wasting ammo. If you dump a 100 round belt through a modern general purpose machine-gun you'll waste most of the ammo and hasten the demise of the barrel.

As to the relevance of archers, I often abstract a horde of archers as a Dex save of some sort so I can avoid having to deal with targeting or rolling all those dice, so if there were a lot of rapid fire weapons I'd do the same thing.

One of the big reasons for smaller caliber rifles today, is that small arms are low level casualty causes on the battlefield. Even now, IED's with high explosive being the most, which was true in WW1 and WW2 as well, with the QF Howitzer. Even with controlled bursts for MG's, one can put up a wall of fire, saturating an area.

The large caliber, expanding base projectiles, of the Civil War muskets, were what were deadlier about them, the wound channel. The pdf goes into this in depth, about how bullets wound, all other things being equal, it is the size of the projectile.

Yes, it is about the genre being depicted, and Hollywood is terrible about showing people being shot, say in the shoulder, but they are fine 15 minutes later. Then again there is the fact that some wounds take time to take effect, bleeding out for example, where then someone could die later. D&D as well, doesn't show a lot of people dying from sepsis, which I have heard was bad for early wounds from melee type weapons.
 

[B said:
Jay Verkuilen[/B]]I suspect the notion that modern military weapons are designed to wound is rather an urban legend but I'd definitely like for someone who has expertise to comment.

Well, when I was in the military, it was certainly brought up. Most battlefield weapons are designed to wound, rather than kill, because wounding is far, far more effective than killing. If you wound a soldier, it takes dozens of enemy personal to bring that soldier back to the line (people to take the soldier off the battlefield, forward area medical treatment, transport further to the rear, more medical treatment, possibly removal to their home country for still more medical treatment) whereas if you kill someone, it takes two or three people to bury the body. It's more about economics than anything.

@Sacrosanct - a point to remember about the Vegas shooting was the advent of modern medicine. Had that same shooting occurred even as recently as a couple of decades ago, the death toll would have been significantly higher. Numerous US cities have reported large reduction in firearm fatalities, not because there are less firearm incidents, but because they can now save people who would have died from their wounds twenty years ago.

There is the other issue to remember as well - a modern or SF character can carry SO MUCH more firepower than earlier era's. Compare the firepower of a modern US infantry platoon to even a Korean War era US platoon and they're not even close. The modern load out of soldiers is truly terrifying. Never minding the non-weapon stuff too - body armor that is reasonably effective, night vision goggles that are often standard issue, heck, even something as simple as kneepads make a huge difference.

Now, advance technology 20 years, 50 years, 500 years, and the average soldier is an engine of destruction. Imagine for a moment what a platoon sized unit (or company sized if you want overkill) could do at, say, Agincourt.
 

Well, when I was in the military, it was certainly brought up. Most battlefield weapons are designed to wound, rather than kill, because wounding is far, far more effective than killing. If you wound a soldier, it takes dozens of enemy personal to bring that soldier back to the line (people to take the soldier off the battlefield, forward area medical treatment, transport further to the rear, more medical treatment, possibly removal to their home country for still more medical treatment) whereas if you kill someone, it takes two or three people to bury the body. It's more about economics than anything.

I always thought it a bit odd, because it's Western armies that react like this to having a man wounded, and Western armies that equipped their soldiers with 5.56mm. Most of their opponents don't react like this to a wounded soldier.
 

I always thought it a bit odd, because it's Western armies that react like this to having a man wounded, and Western armies that equipped their soldiers with 5.56mm. Most of their opponents don't react like this to a wounded soldier.

I don't think that that is true. Virtually all armies in the world act like this to the best of their abilities. You don't leave wounded on the field, and you do your best to save the wounded. Otherwise, your soldiers would pretty quickly decide that you aren't really worth fighting for.
 


That's true, but hit points aren't entirely "plot armor" either. For instance, natural healing back in the older versions of the game was very, very slow, so it would revert to quasi-realism. There are many other ways hit points don't line up with being plot armor either. For instance, in many movies, TV shows, or stories, heroes often surrender when having a dagger held to the throat. But the real meta-game thinker would laugh that off.




Perhaps, but I think we've likely both played long enough to know how meta-game thinking is like crack with Cheez Wiz for some players. They just seem to be unable to avoid it, for instance deciding that the way death saves and overnight healing work applies to NPCs as well, especially if it suits their purposes.
With regard to old school healing rates, I am of the opinion that the issue was with the healing rules. I never liked them, even back in the day, and usually house ruled healing rates to be along the lines of level plus Constitution modifier.

Using the old rules, take two characters, one with a maximum Constitution and one with a minimum Constitution. Beat them down to one hit point (or zero) and wait for them to heal naturally. The guy with max Con will take much longer to heal than the guy with min Con, because healing didn't account for Constitution (or level). That's fairly counter intuitive to what one would expect. The healthiest man alive ought to be able to recover from injuries faster than the frailest person in the world.

In fairness though, assuming that HP do not represent meat, you could assign any recovery rate to such ephemera and it'd make as much sense as anything else.

Personally, I avoid playing with people who seek to blatantly abuse the rules. So that's my solution. If someone tried that kind of thing at my table, I'd discuss it with them as an adult. If that didn't work, I would politely ask them to find a different group. But I recognize that not everyone will consider that a viable solution to the issue. That said, I'm firmly of the belief that if you've got a people problem you need a people-based solution (like talking it out). Rules-based solutions can only address issues that stem from the rules, as opposed to those caused by people behaving in a manner that is opposed to the intent of the game.
 

I don't think that that is true. Virtually all armies in the world act like this to the best of their abilities. You don't leave wounded on the field, and you do your best to save the wounded. Otherwise, your soldiers would pretty quickly decide that you aren't really worth fighting for.
There are other reasons besides concern for well being that engender both desire to not kill and to not leave wounded.

Not the least of which is that a live captive in need of medical attention has a real strong lever for coercion... the withholding of pain meds of post-op patients has a history of being used to coerce information. Likewise, it's not hard to get them addicted to pain meds, and then use withdrawl as a sanctionable form of torture.

And then, there's the reuse of issue gear. If you recover the soldier, you usually recover much of his gear, too.

Plus, even your dead have value - the psychology of heroism... burying the dead at home is leverage for coopting new soldiers to want revenge.
 

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