Worried that the mistakes of the past are being repeated...

[Umbran]

I see little evidence of this - one big web poll on pisonics and some vague questions on those tear-out forms in hardcover books.

Modern market research works with relatively small sample sizes. It would not at all be surprising if you'd never seen it in action, as only a small number of people are invovled.

 

[Romnipotent]

If I could convince a couple of people I would be running gurps 4th ed... with Oathbound as a setting. Unfortunately some of my players are d20 hardcore players and some say the problem with Gurps is when people use too many books.
Thats why I'd just use Characters (and magic).

I bought Unearthed Arcana, which had A LOT of the Races OF stuff.... and environmental supplements too... go UA!

 

[Henry]

...I'm not worried worried per se, I'm just . . . "concerned" . . . 2nd Edition itself was (at least in my opinion) a steaming pile of crap from the start; I stuck with D&D0 until the day 3rd Edition was released.

And this is where our experiences differed. I thoroughly enjoyed 2E, from the release of the core books (PHB and DMG), through the first few monstrous compendiums, and the Complete Fighter's and Complete Thief's Handbook. After that, I started to become ill with the quality of releases, but until 1991 or so, it was all good for me, and I used it (to this day, my complete splatbooks still smell like the cigarettes my friends used to smoke. ) I then later found the player's options books handy, but wasn't playing then. But my belief in what was crappy and what wasn't is different - I got a HECK of a lot of use from my 2E books - though the run did turn sour for me, it's true.

As long as WotC isn't cannibalizing their own market, it's still working well for them. The one thing I DON'T see, is them growing their customer base with new players, but a friend of mine, BelenUmeria, has shown me also that WotC is indeed even taking steps in that, so I'm glad to see them reversing the trend.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Modern market research works with relatively small sample sizes. It would not at all be surprising if you'd never seen it in action, as only a small number of people are invovled.

Plus I'm sure a lot (probably 90% ) of the market research is conducted using retailers and distributors more so than end users. One retailer giving information on sales and requests from customers is more efficient than compiling information from a whole bunch of customers.

I don't see how putting out new material hurts the company. As long as it sells and maintains consistency from book to book, where is the problem? Is there a finite number of books they have before nobody buys more? I would doubt there is a single book they could produce at this time that would sell to more than 50% of the market, possibly not even 25% (at least until 4e). If they slow the rate of new material to only one book per month, then their sales will likely be much more volatile each month. By hitting with three or four which will appeal to different segments of the market, they have a chance at keeping sales at some predictable level and they keep different segments of the market happy by supporting them on a more regular basis.

 

[Psion]

Seeing all the new books coming out, I'm getting worried. Yes, some of them are good additions (D20 Modern, D20 Future, those books add new elements that are useful), but a lot are needless accessories that 9 our of 10 gamers will rarely if ever use (Races of Stone, Stormwrack, etc.), so I'm starting to get a bad feeling.

I strongly suspect that your feelings about which types of books see widespread use and which don't are 180 degrees out of phase with reality. D&D is the big kahuna market penetration wise; character option books are all the rage. It's a lot harder to get the audience to try out variant games like d20 modern.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I kind-of see it as well. 3e is quickly approaching the product mass of 2e, even excluding third party products.

But is it fair to judge it by the original marketing paradigm of a small amount of core books supported by several series of modules? Yes, it worked for TSR, but that was decades ago. I don't know that it would work these days.

I'll go out on a limb and say that I actually liked the variety of campaign settings in 2e. I'm not saying it made the best business sense, but I enjoyed the options.

 

[ForceUser]

Anyone else got a bad feeling about this nonsense?

I don't like many of the recent releases, but WotC is a business. They must make money to survive, hence, products must continue to come. It's really that simple.

 

[Dr. Harry]

Of course 90% is made up, but I'd at least call it an educated guess. I'm not pointing to any one product either. If you look at all the supplement books versus the number of DMs out there, I think it is safe then to look at those numbers and say a very strong majority (about 90%) would never use most of the books out there. On top of that, some various books cover the same topics, dividing the base between the books in many cases.

Your estimate cannot be called an educated guess merely out of courtesy; to be an educated guess, you must have data from which your conclusion would be a reasonable outcome, and you must therefore explain what you are basing your statement on. Your statement as you defend it, would still come down to what still seems to me to be your personal impressions. What else are you basing this on?

 

[Desdichado]

Of course 90% is made up, but I'd at least call it an educated guess.

Edcuated? How so? I'm not even sure I'd dignify that by calling it a guess, myself. I surely wouldn't say it's educated.

Stormwrack --to use your example-- is the third environmental book. By now, they know how well that series is selling in general, and can predict with presumably some accuracy how it will do. If there were a problem with the series, i.e. not selling, it wouldn't be on its third book by now.

 

[Desdichado]

What I'd like to see more of are books where the material is all brand new. Stuff like Races of Stone and such are simple expansions of existing rules and supplemental stuff. D20 Modern was all-new as was D20 Future. Deities & Demigods is another example. Libris Mortis and Draconomicon, while expansions, had enough interesting new stuff to fall into this group because of the broad multi-use things within.

Racial books, though, and things like Savage Species and Stormwrack, just don't provide enough frequently usable new territory.

Like I said, it's just a concern for the time being. Still, some things like the Planar Handbook even have me quite nervous as to the direction.

I think you've got completely backwards what kinds of books are "frequently usable", or at least frequently used and what are not.

d20 Modern is small potatoes compared to D&D. Any d20 Modern type game or suppliment will not be as frequently used as any D&D supplement just because the user bases are so much larger.