Worried that the mistakes of the past are being repeated...

[kenobi65]

Plus I'm sure a lot (probably 90% ) of the market research is conducted using retailers and distributors more so than end users. One retailer giving information on sales and requests from customers is more efficient than compiling information from a whole bunch of customers.

Don't be so sure. Having spoken with WotC about their market research department, I can tell you that they do a large amount of "consumer" reserach, both qualitative (focus groups and the like) and quantitative (surveys and other sources of "hard numbers").

And, as Umbran points out, such research is almost always done among (at most) a few hundred respondents; thus, the odds of any one player being contacted and asked to participate in a research project is very very small. The online surveys that they occasionally put on the WotC web site, and the product satisfaction survey cards in the back of the books, are just two small parts of what they do.

 

[diaglo]

Don't be so sure. Having spoken with WotC about their market research department, I can tell you that they do a large amount of "consumer" reserach, both qualitative (focus groups and the like) and quantitative (surveys and other sources of "hard numbers").

And, as Umbran points out, such research is almost always done among (at most) a few hundred respondents; thus, the odds of any one player being contacted and asked to participate in a research project is very very small. The online surveys that they occasionally put on the WotC web site, and the product satisfaction survey cards in the back of the books, are just two small parts of what they do.

i've filled out hundreds of customer cards and returned them... thus my comment about being 89% of the 90%

 

[Odhanan]

I really don't find the environment series (Stormwrack etc) to be useful for my game, and the races series let me cold. I like Libris Mortis though. There seems to be three types of books put out by WotC lately: the thematic book (Races, environment, complete, evil guys in FR, magic in Eberron etc), the anthology book (the next big release spell book for December) and the yet-another-psionic handbook (magic of Incarnum). All in all, I feel that's not what I want for my game.

I'd like a "Complete Encounters Handbook" for instance with all the details to create them, makes them the most original possible with loads and loads of cool, flavorful examples (instead of publishing just one encounter with a few minis for $15 I mean). Or a "High Level Campaign Guide" with a complete breakdown of high level gameplay: its specificities, its necessities in terms of game design and DM rulings, the things to bear in mind, how to create high level creatures, high level encounters, sample plots etc etc without adding yet-more-feats-and-PrCs. I've had enough with the Epic Level Handbook and that's not what I need.

*pause* Okay. I'm seriously sidetracking here. Anyway, I guess my point is that I know what I want and don't want. I notice that the creativity of the Wizards team is either decreasing or being seriously framed by the marketing department (more than before I mean, if possible). I hope the new blood will bring new ideas going in new directions. But can I speak for 90% of D&D gamers on this? Well no, probably not.

 

[BSF]

Well, just as an example, using Stormwrack, I don't see very many DMs using such things often enough to warrant an entire book. I like releases that have nothing but new and innovative and pertinent information, but a lot of the ones we're getting either rehash old stuff or tell us what we (should) already know or at least have enough creativity to come up with ourselves.

Plus you have third party publishers on top of the WotC products now (something TSR didn't have), and most of them have nothing really new or innovative either. I just assume that most DMs are like me: limited budget and not willing to buy books that don't have mostly new and innovative features.

While I understand your general concern regarding WotC, I think you are a little off the mark here.

Sure, right now I have no use for the environmental books. But those books certainly have a place. Especially for the people that like to run thematic campaigns. WotC has also tried to make many of those books useful to players & DMs by including a variety of material. It is quite possible for a player to pick up one of those books and create a new PC that matches the book's thematics as the base point for their new PC in an established campaign. Of course, I haven't bought much WotC stuff lately either. But that brings me to your second point.

I don't buy much WotC product because the exciting stuff I am interested in is coming out from the third-party publishers. I have to disagree with you in that I think much of the new, innovative material is coming from non-WotC sources. I find most of my gaming budget going to third parties each month.

 

[Dr. Harry]

I really don't find the environment series (Stormwrack etc) to be useful for my game, and the races series let me cold. I like Libris Mortis though. There seems to be three types of books put out by WotC lately: the thematic book (Races, environment, complete, evil guys in FR, magic in Eberron etc), the anthology book (the next big release spell book for December) and the yet-another-psionic handbook (magic of Incarnum). All in all, I feel that's not what I want for my game.

Interesting. For myself, I really like the enviroment books, I also didn't get excited about the race books, and the monster books weren't cool enough to get my money. I wonder if books that sell at 1/3 the rate of the core books are profitable for Wizards - I hope so, because that means that it's working. (From our sample size of 2 )

I'd like a "Complete Encounters Handbook" for instance with all the details to create them, makes them the most original possible with loads and loads of cool, flavorful examples (instead of publishing just one encounter with a few minis for $15 I mean).

This sounds cool ... kind of like Atlas Games' "En Route" series, except with a lot of short writeups instead of several medium sized writeups? They could call it "Wandering Monsters" or something.

One-book campaign concepts like Ghostwalk would also be cool.

Or a "High Level Campaign Guide" with a complete breakdown of high level gameplay: its specificities, its necessities in terms of game design and DM rulings, the things to bear in mind, how to create high level creatures, high level encounters, sample plots etc etc without adding yet-more-feats-and-PrCs. I've had enough with the Epic Level Handbook and that's not what I need.

I agree that this is needed.

*pause* Okay. I'm seriously sidetracking here. Anyway, I guess my point is that I know what I want and don't want. I notice that the creativity of the Wizards team is either decreasing or being seriously framed by the marketing department (more than before I mean, if possible). I hope the new blood will bring new ideas going in new directions. But can I speak for 90% of D&D gamers on this? Well no, probably not.

To me, it seems like Wizards is actually at the point of having to get creative, because the well of last-edition books to be re-released is starting to slow down.

Editted to fix format smegup

 

[Odhanan]

One-book campaign concepts like Ghostwalk would also be cool.

I so agree with this.

 

[Argonel]

Tossing my two coppers in I don't have enough use for the envioronment or races book to buy them, but I have been buying every non-adventure release in the Eberron line. The writing and editing have been spotty here and there, but I'm enjoying the setting. I am also really appreciating the work of the art directors for the Eberron line.

 

[barsoomcore]

Here's a question: What is it that people are worried will happen? What dire consequences do we foresee?

I mean, for example, let us assume a meteorite strikes the WotC offices tomorrow and obliterates the whole place (and let us assume Monte Cook was visiting that day, just to really take out the industry). What effect would that (which is presumably the worst thing that could happen to WotC) have on the hobby?

Actually, my Thursday game would go ahead just fine. No offence to anyone who I just theoretically vaporized, but there would actually be ZERO impact on my gaming fun. So what exactly are we worried about? I don't get it.

 

[Dr. Harry]

Here's a question: What is it that people are worried will happen? What dire consequences do we foresee?

I mean, for example, let us assume a meteorite strikes the WotC offices tomorrow and obliterates the whole place (and let us assume Monte Cook was visiting that day, just to really take out the industry). What effect would that (which is presumably the worst thing that could happen to WotC) have on the hobby?

Actually, my Thursday game would go ahead just fine. No offence to anyone who I just theoretically vaporized, but there would actually be ZERO impact on my gaming fun. So what exactly are we worried about? I don't get it.

We could go on (although I recently moved & am looking for a group), but we would only get those new gamers who were "initiated" into the hobby by other gamers. Some gamers (like me) got into the game by buying it off a bookstore shelf, and then meeting others at a game store. No new material, no game stores, few new gamers.

 

[barsoomcore]

There's a large difference between "WotC Goes Out Of Business" and "No New Gaming Material". If there's a demand for this stuff, somebody will make it. If WotC does a crappy job, somebody will do a better. White Wolf could be said to owe much of its current market position to the timing of its products and the decline of TSR. So worrying about Wizards' business practices is very different from worrying about the health of the industry.

Even the fact that Wizards represents the largest share of the market doesn't make those two ideas congruent. Again, if Wizards drops the ball, there's no shortage of hungry, ambitious publishers looking for a chance to increase their market share. You don't have to worry that the hobby will wither and die just because one publisher screws up. That's like worrying that if General Motors falls over, people will stop driving.