Worst 3.5 Change
- Thread starter Hardhead
- Start date
TroyXavier
First Post
I voted spell focus, not so much for spell focus but for greater spell focus.
Hardhead
Explorer
Actually, I like most of the changes on that list. I just decided to see what others thought.
Here's my thoughts:I like the new ranger. A feat list instead of two seperate ability chains would have been better, but hey.
OK, I do think this one is dumb.
And I don't like the PrCs either.
I like the new SF and GSF. I think SF was clearly too good before. OTOH, I also think they needed to do something about good saves being too good, especially from multiple multiclassings. I hope to see save progs that start at +1, a la d20 Modern, in 4e.
I'm like this one too.
This just fixes the difference in damage between a double weapon wielder and a two-handed weapon wielder. Now, if only they'd make sword-and-board types better.
Eh. No big deal, but I think I probably like it.
I hate the ELH. As someone that tried to use epic stuff before, and found it imensely wanting, I don't like it's inclusion in the DMG.
Dwarves needed a boost compared to half-orcs, and they got it. Now, they're better Fighters than h/orcs (though h/orcs probably still make better barbs). All is right in the world.
Considering TWF was already a superior choice, I don't see the logic in this, though the fix to Power Attack may make it a moot point.
The new Haste is my favorite fix.
My second favorite fix.
Yeah, this one is dumb too, from a flavor perspective. But I can see the argument.
I like the idea of a druid with lots of little bird companions, or whatever, so I'm not a fan of the new animal companion rules.
As for the facing, meh, it doens't bother me that much. As for the DR, I actually like it. Most fighters can power through a 5 or 10 DR if they don't have the correct weapon, anyway.
FreeTheSlaves
Adventurer
I haven't seen a single 3.5 improvement that has bugged me.
Wait...
Nup, nothing.
Wait...
Nup, nothing.
Coik
First Post
rounser said:
Sexually gendered mind flayers "exist" as of 3E too. Oh the humanity...(or the nonhumanity....monsterity....whatever).
Actually, that one you might be able to blame on Bruce Cordell. It's been a while since I've read The Illithid (and goddess only knows where my copy is, so I can't really check), but I think I read something to the effect in there.
That's another thing...what the firk is wrong with "illithid?" It's a hella cooler name than "mind flayer," that's fer dang sure...
I have to say I hate the changes to Hold spells. If there was an evil overlord that made me play by either the 3.0 rulesas writen or the 3.5 rules as writen, I'd have to choose 3.0 just because of the current Hold Person.
I prety much love all the changes in 3.5, but would give it all up to have the old hold person (I'd rather have the 1e mage hold person when it comes down to it)
I prety much love all the changes in 3.5, but would give it all up to have the old hold person (I'd rather have the 1e mage hold person when it comes down to it)
Darrin Drader
Explorer
Where's the "None of the bove" option?
Trickstergod
First Post
Natch, voted for the Dwarves, really wanted to include the change to Summon Mount, as well.
In the end, I chose my disdain for an already good race being made too good. Inspiring homogenity also gets my goat; anything that will encourage more dwarves to look alike, statistic-wise, gets to me. There's no getting around the fact that more of them will now be waraxe-wielding Fighters, as opposed to formerly having about as much advantage being a Cleric, or wielding a battleaxe, warhammer, greataxe, or, if they were really feeling like it, a greatsword or scimitar. Over-specificity and overpowering.
The summoning ability really gets my goat as well. Turning a paladin into a conjurer, of any variety, just....ooooo!!!!
In the end, I chose my disdain for an already good race being made too good. Inspiring homogenity also gets my goat; anything that will encourage more dwarves to look alike, statistic-wise, gets to me. There's no getting around the fact that more of them will now be waraxe-wielding Fighters, as opposed to formerly having about as much advantage being a Cleric, or wielding a battleaxe, warhammer, greataxe, or, if they were really feeling like it, a greatsword or scimitar. Over-specificity and overpowering.
The summoning ability really gets my goat as well. Turning a paladin into a conjurer, of any variety, just....ooooo!!!!
EtherHulkRending
First Post
Honestly, I have read as many of the 3.5 scheduled changes as I can, and I haven't seen any that make 3.5 unbearable. The achery "nerf" as people seem to want to call it makes sense, there never was a good reason why a magic bow wouldn't make it's arrows pierce DR when it could make them flaming or frost etc, I am glad that magic bows will let arrows pierce DR
The hold spells, I didn't think they needed to be fixed, but it's nice what they did, especially from the POV of someone who's characters in general have low will saves. But in general, it's nothing too bad, considering those who typically fail the first save have a good shot of continuing to fail.
Haste was a good change
Rangers were good changes
Rogues got shafted tossing their uncanny dodge back to 4th level, but it's nothing that'll make me hate the game
buff spells, while I dislike the fact my character will receive less buffing, again, it's nothing serious enough to throw a fit over
skill boost items I think need a different formula, I don't mind the price of the +5 skill boost items at 2500, but I think a +10 Cloak of Elvenkind should not cost 10,000gp, it's a bit too high, but again, nothing I can't live with, I'll just get less bang for a lil more buck
the half orc needed and still needs help, he is nothing in comparison to the other races.
Humans get extra skills and an extra feat.
Elves get a slew or racial weapon profs, lowlight vision, immunity to sleep, need half the sleep, 3 racial skill bonuses, and the chance to automatically search for secret doors
Dwarves get darkvision, racial attack bonuses, racial bonus against poison, spells, and racial weapon prof at the cost of reduced speed
gnomes get cantrips, lowlight vision, saves vs illusions and skill bonuses
halflings get racial bonus to thrown weapons, and a LOT of skill bonuses
Half-orcs get......darkvision..............how is this balanced?
sure he gets a +2 Str for a -2 int and -2 cha
WRONG, that in no way makes up for his lack of everything else. a dwarf gets a CON bonus for just a cha penalty AND all his abilities
Balancing races is what SHOULD have been fixed, first and foremost
the one concept I want people to stop whining about is the DR change.
It adds flavor to the game. It makes the stoneskin spell a little less evil to fight through. Of the numerous times I've fought lycanthropes, I've only ever used silver once. The rest of the time it was magic items/spells. I will say that it DOES lose some of the "werewolf" flavor when you're non-silver sword cuts right through it just cause it's magical.
and to silence the people saying that it would require the "golf bag of weapons" I believe it was called.....so what? right tool for the right job
my main character can fix that problem real easily, it's called Quickdraw
the weapons he carries around at 10th level
+1 Frost Greataxe
Masterwork Glaive
Masterwork Longsword
daggerX2
Masterwork Mighty Comp L-bow +4
sling
GreatClub
Longspear
spiked gauntlet
No bag of holding, no HHH. Just a combat machine. A melee type SHOULD have different weapons for the different foes he encounters. And when 3.5 hits and there are more rules governing weapons of different materials, he'll sell off some of his tools to get the new ones.
The hold spells, I didn't think they needed to be fixed, but it's nice what they did, especially from the POV of someone who's characters in general have low will saves. But in general, it's nothing too bad, considering those who typically fail the first save have a good shot of continuing to fail.
Haste was a good change
Rangers were good changes
Rogues got shafted tossing their uncanny dodge back to 4th level, but it's nothing that'll make me hate the game
buff spells, while I dislike the fact my character will receive less buffing, again, it's nothing serious enough to throw a fit over
skill boost items I think need a different formula, I don't mind the price of the +5 skill boost items at 2500, but I think a +10 Cloak of Elvenkind should not cost 10,000gp, it's a bit too high, but again, nothing I can't live with, I'll just get less bang for a lil more buck
the half orc needed and still needs help, he is nothing in comparison to the other races.
Humans get extra skills and an extra feat.
Elves get a slew or racial weapon profs, lowlight vision, immunity to sleep, need half the sleep, 3 racial skill bonuses, and the chance to automatically search for secret doors
Dwarves get darkvision, racial attack bonuses, racial bonus against poison, spells, and racial weapon prof at the cost of reduced speed
gnomes get cantrips, lowlight vision, saves vs illusions and skill bonuses
halflings get racial bonus to thrown weapons, and a LOT of skill bonuses
Half-orcs get......darkvision..............how is this balanced?
sure he gets a +2 Str for a -2 int and -2 cha
WRONG, that in no way makes up for his lack of everything else. a dwarf gets a CON bonus for just a cha penalty AND all his abilities
Balancing races is what SHOULD have been fixed, first and foremost
the one concept I want people to stop whining about is the DR change.
It adds flavor to the game. It makes the stoneskin spell a little less evil to fight through. Of the numerous times I've fought lycanthropes, I've only ever used silver once. The rest of the time it was magic items/spells. I will say that it DOES lose some of the "werewolf" flavor when you're non-silver sword cuts right through it just cause it's magical.
and to silence the people saying that it would require the "golf bag of weapons" I believe it was called.....so what? right tool for the right job
my main character can fix that problem real easily, it's called Quickdraw
the weapons he carries around at 10th level
+1 Frost Greataxe
Masterwork Glaive
Masterwork Longsword
daggerX2
Masterwork Mighty Comp L-bow +4
sling
GreatClub
Longspear
spiked gauntlet
No bag of holding, no HHH. Just a combat machine. A melee type SHOULD have different weapons for the different foes he encounters. And when 3.5 hits and there are more rules governing weapons of different materials, he'll sell off some of his tools to get the new ones.
GamerMan12
First Post
No game does archery right
The problem with archery rules in nearly all games, RPGs, miniatures etc., is that if you made them realistic, then the devastation that a trained archer can do at real ranges with a good normal bow, let alone a magical one would be unbalanced, combats would be over not long after sighting the enemy.
And table top battles would be settled at sighting range
So all games face the problem of having to nerf the power of missiles to allow melee combat to be meaningful.
So in D&D games you end up where melees are more desirable than a missile combat. Whilst this may be more playable, it does suffer from being less believable.
I can play and DM games like this, but when you get a player determined to be a missile specialist in D&D this weakness is exposed.
From a playability point of view, in games where missile combat was mainly by NPCs
then 3.0 was fine. But when a player used all the rules then it was unbalanced.
I think they have gone a bit far with 3.5, but I will see what happens during play. I think I will have to bolster NPCs up in this area, give them magical bows and magical arrows to even up the fights.
GamerMan12
The problem with archery rules in nearly all games, RPGs, miniatures etc., is that if you made them realistic, then the devastation that a trained archer can do at real ranges with a good normal bow, let alone a magical one would be unbalanced, combats would be over not long after sighting the enemy.
And table top battles would be settled at sighting range
So all games face the problem of having to nerf the power of missiles to allow melee combat to be meaningful.
So in D&D games you end up where melees are more desirable than a missile combat. Whilst this may be more playable, it does suffer from being less believable.
I can play and DM games like this, but when you get a player determined to be a missile specialist in D&D this weakness is exposed.
From a playability point of view, in games where missile combat was mainly by NPCs
then 3.0 was fine. But when a player used all the rules then it was unbalanced.
I think they have gone a bit far with 3.5, but I will see what happens during play. I think I will have to bolster NPCs up in this area, give them magical bows and magical arrows to even up the fights.
GamerMan12
