D&D (2024) WoTc and TSR... what is D&D

[GreyLord]

Well, comparing Video game generations to D&D....

Trying to align the years to the timing...though not a perfect match...

5e = Playstation 4. Not very backwards compatible with what came before it I suppose for the most part. Then you have Xbox One, which has backwards compatibility all the way back to some of the original xbox games.

4e = Playstation 3 which was not very popular in the Americas though it eventually outsold Xbox when counting overseas numbers, but it was great in that it had a new take on things (your media box which has blu-ray, internet, etc). Influenced what came after. Xbox 360 was very easily broken at first, and had some very difficult problems in it's lifetime, but there are those who love it today still. It's also the Wii-U where people got confused over whether it was actually the Wii, and why they should get it. Those who are fans of the Wii-U are very massive fans, but their numbers are fewer than other Nintendo systems.

3e = The Nintendo Gamecube and the Nintendo DS. The Nintendo DS and 3ds actually sold quite well and is loved by many still. It was their first Game system for many of that era. It's also the Playstation 1 and 2 which revolutionized game systems with it's CD use and higher graphics. It had a massive library from 3rd party makers which was different than the more controlled Nintendo system that came before.

2e = The SNES and Sega Genesis. 16 bit graphics were awesome at the time. They built franchises up (Zelda, Mario, Sonic, etc). Many see them as the top of that era for games. Genesis could also be seen as the last great system Sega ever made (Sure, they made a few others, but none with the success of the Genesis and the last finally made Sega stop making Consoles).

1e = The first one out which people recall fondly. This is the Nintendo game system. This is where graphics suddenly take off in full 8 bit color and make people sit down and take note. This is the Atari 2600 and other systems where for the first time you can play the games from the arcade right in your home. This is gaming.

0e = What is this? These are the original games in the arcades that you could go an play. Always fun to go and play, ever able to evolve with the latest and greatest. Originally it was this that the other consoles came out to copy and to try to bring the ideas over. Later, it was just something people loved to play.

And of course, how could we forget...

BX/BECMI/RC = What is left to fill the gap? Why, only the greatest of all gaming systems ever made...the PC. Ever useful, ever adapting, and probably have more users than any single console alone.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The big turning point and split in D&D that I see is not between TSR and WotC D&D, but between pre-Dragonlance and post-Dragonlance D&D. Dragonlance changed everything.16 years before 3rd edition was released.

interesting... I like where you are going because I thought 2e changed around the raven loft setting... so I may just be seeing it later then you
(edit I also played with people who called late 2e books 3e and got mad when 3e came out and wasn't just those books made core)

When the OSR was a thing back in about 2008 to 2014, the people involved didn't get excited about returning to pre-3rd Edition D&D. It was all about pre-Dragonlance D&D. OD&D, AD&D, and B/X were the names of the game. AD&D 2nd edition and the Master and Companion Sets remained pretty much completely untouched. (I know there was one 2nd ed. retroclone in the works, but that never got completed.)

interesting again... maybe that is why I get pushed to the sides of OSR wanting that 2e feel... and yes I backed Myth and Magic and someday hope something like it shines

Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer; those are all 2nd edition works. (Forgotten Realms had a few releases right at the very end of 1st, which were all much smaller in scope than the big 2nd edition boxes.) I think there is quite a lot of continuity between 2nd edition and 3rd, which continies into 5th. A greater continuity than what you find in works from 1982 and 1986.

so maybe there are multi break points... this post is amazing and full of insight.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

5e = Playstation 4.
4e = Playstation 3
3e = The Nintendo Gamecube and the Nintendo DS.
2e = The SNES and Sega Genesis.
1e = The first one out which people recall fondly. This is the Nintendo game system. This is where graphics suddenly take off in full 8 bit color and make people sit down and take note. This is the Atari 2600 and other systems where for the first time you can play the games from the arcade right in your home. This is gaming.

I like this anology better then the one on page 1 the only thing I would change is lable 1 the NES, an chance the 3e to playstation/playstation2...

 

[Stormonu]

I’d change the video game analogy slightly, as I’m a more X-box leaning

5E - PC computer; can emulate all the previous systems, but is its own thing as well
4E - PlayStation 3; ‘nuff said
3E - X-Box. Revolutionary for its time and exploded on the market, generally well-liked and expansive game support.
2E - Nintendo 64. The last cartridge game, when others were moving to CD-Rom. In the RPG arena, this was during the time of the rise of Storyteller systems (equal to the PS1), whilst TSR was hanging onto level-based advancements, Spellfire and Dragon Dice.
1E - NES/SNES. Classic peak of the golden age of gaming. SNES could be equated to the arrival of UE in D&D.
BECM - Intellivision/Coleco. More advanced that the 1st iteration, but still simplistic and well-liked.
0E - Atari 2600. The “first”; crude, incomplete and poorly emulated its source material

 

[BookTenTiger]

Here is the correct analogy:

5e - Basketball Hoop. It's round, it's got a net, you can use it for many different (basketball-related) games.

4e - Hoola hoop. It's fun, easy to use. If you play with it a lot you can really develop a strong core.

3e - Hooper (character from Jaws). It's smart, technical, and wants a bigger boat.

AD&D - Hoop Skirt. It's old but never old fashioned. There will always be someone wearing it on a BBC special.

OD&D - Hoop & Stick. It's eternal, what cave children used to play with.

 

[Staffan]

Who else is going to put out a Mars setting?

Onyx Path Publishing?

Well, technically that's a game and not a setting, but still...

 

[overgeeked]

If anyone’s interested here’s a short video on the Hickman Revolution and how it’s widely misinterpreted today.


If anyone wants to know how Tracy thinks about running games, check out X-Treme Dungeon Mastery (aka XDM). It’s a great resource. 1E is out of print and 2E has recently completed its Kickstarter.

A review of 1E here.

 

[Hex08]

so as we look to 2024 (and in theory into 2034 for the 60th) do 1e or 2e really hold much sway anymore?

Whatever the current edition is will usually be king, with the possible exception of 4E since Pathfinder carried on the 3.x tradition and by some accounts it outsold 4E. That said, games like Old School Essentials, OSRIC, and Castles & Crusades do have a reasonable sized followings and there are still people playing older editions of D&D. Granted, they are a small part of the overall D&D pie but they are there.

 

[Retreater]

Back to the video game analogy (don't hate me) - I think 6e will be the equivalent of the Nintendo Wii. Simple games, designed to bring in people who aren't traditionally gamers and new fans. I think 5e has followed this trajectory increasingly for the past 5 years.
I think 5e is not the best for traditional/older fans. And this isn't coming into it from a curmudgeon, grognard "I hate that they are changing my beloved settings" standpoint.
What is 5e missing?
1) Not a lot of player option books, which usually pull in dedicated fans and hardcore gamers with the ability for customization.
2) Adventures designed to be used by busy DMs so they can "pick up and play."
What do we get?
1) A large number of starter sets
2) Media tie-in products to get new fans (Stranger Things, Rick and Morty, Magic the Gathering, Critical Role, Nerds candy games)
Just to be clear, I bought a Wii and I enjoyed it for a time. I don't think it's a bad comparison to be linked to one of the top-selling game consoles of all time. It did save Nintendo's console business from irrelevance.
But I do want more than what 5e offers - and likely what 6e will offer.

 

[payn]

Missing from 5E
2) Adventures designed to be used by busy DMs so they can "pick up and play."

I'm curious about this point. I would like to hear you expand on it. I am guessing we have some different philosophies on adventure material.