Pathfinder 1E WotC desperately needs to learn from Paizo and Privateer Press

[BryonD]

I agree with this. Running a pregenerated adventure doesn't eliminate the preparation required for a game. It does vastly cut it down, IME, but does still leave quite a lot to do.

IME running a pregenerated campaign at a level I'm satisfied with takes at least as much effort as building my own. You can run a module or AP at a C- level with pretty minimal prep. So it most certainly can be done.

But if you really want an A+ level of experience, the dedication it takes to know someone else's story at the level a good DM(*) should takes more added time than having the pre-built stat blocks saves.

(*) "good DM" is per my own standards, YMMV, of course.

 

[delericho]

IME running a pregenerated campaign at a level I'm satisfied with takes at least as much effort as building my own.

But if you really want an A+ level of experience, the dedication it takes to know someone else's story at the level a good DM(*) should takes more added time than having the pre-built stat blocks saves.

I can only speak to my own experience, but I number "Shackled City" as one of the best three campaigns I have ever run, and it definately required less preparation than a homebrewed campaign of the same detail.

(About 1-to-3 prep to game hours, rather than 1-to-1 normally, and most of that spent on reading and book-keeping work, as opposed to crunching stat blocks as is my norm. Have I mentioned before that I count "prep time" as my #1 hate with 3.5e? )

It may be just that the story of SC resonated quite closely with the campaign I wanted to run anyway. It could be that I wasn't too concerned with tying down every detail 'just right'. Or it could be that that game experience just happened to be exactly what I and my group wanted at just that time.

Either way, it just worked very well indeed.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

(About 1-to-3 prep to game hours, rather than 1-to-1 normally, and most of that spent on reading and book-keeping work, as opposed to crunching stat blocks as is my norm. [...])

I agree. There's just no way that prep-time for a published adventure equals prep-time from scratch, for the same level of experience. Just no way. I think your "one-third the time" ratio (compared to building from scratch) is just about right for me.

I can certainly use 30 percent preparation and 70 percent on-the-fly creation and end up with a pretty good game, but with the same time investment and a good published adventure, I can run a great game.

 

[BryonD]

I agree. There's just no way that prep-time for a published adventure equals prep-time from scratch, for the same level of experience. Just no way.

Well, since you felt the need to first use italics and then repeat "just no way" again just for good measure, I'll respond that there most absolutely is a way. Very much a way.

There may be differences in the standard of what constitutes the "level" of experience and there may also be differences in the amount of effort required to create from scratch.

 

[Umbran]

I agree. There's just no way ...

Absolutes usually are not.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Absolutes usually are not.

But sometimes are.

 

[BryonD]

But sometimes are.

Sometimes.

 

[SSquirrel]

*waves a Richard Nixon puppet around*

Onward. I think what is probably the best all in one package as far as adventure and fluff etc is Ptolus. Adventures included to take you to max level and lots of other adventure hooks scattered throughout the book. Plenty of detail there for folks who wanted it, but everything isn't super defined, allowing plenty of wiggle room and letting the DM fill stuff in. Not to mention the world itself was pretty sparse. Heck, there are instructions on how to fit the city into multiple other gameworlds on the cd that came with the book.

Expensive sure, but so is buying an entire adventure path. Ptolus was absolutely worth my money and I certainly haven't run thru anything approaching 1/4 of the possibilities.

 

[Obryn]

Exactly. Fill in some of that white space with ecology, background, and better descriptions.

In technical documents, white space is an essential component of good layout. Used properly, it's not wasted space - it's good design which increases utility. (And, from actually running monsters straight from the MM, IMO it's good design.)

-O

 

[Dice4Hire]

Exactly. Fill in some of that white space with ecology, background, and better descriptions.

Thanks, but no thanks. Legibiity is a great draw of the 4E books for me. I really disliked 3.5's brown background, especially in the PHB, though later books were better, Eyestrain is not a desirable part of the D&D experience for me.