WotC has a milking machine now (Draconomicon I)

[The Little Raven]

BTW I support 4th ed, I just refuse to be a sheep led happily to the slaughter.

Oh, so you're calling some of us sheep?

 

[Mistwell]

Oh, so you're calling some of us sheep?

Not just sheep, but that we are being slaughtered by WOTC

 

[BASHMAN]

Okay, anti-4e people aren't even trying anymore. Come on, people, stop phoning it in! I know you can do better!

You have some Kool-aid stain on your chin...

 

[ThirdWizard]

You have some Kool-aid stain on your chin...

I know this is crazy talk, but even in 3e I liked supplements. I even liked Complete Mage (dun dun dunnnn...), an obvious money grab, since Complete Arcane was already published.

Or are supplements good in 3e and bad in 4e?

 

[dm4hire]

I'm not accusing them of anything. I'm just stating that when you deal with a hobby you normally don't keep things which affect it secret. I agree they have the right to withhold their research related to marketing, but when related to the hobby no. If you're going to state that you surveyed people and this was the given result without listing the statistics then it doesn't sound legitimate. So you talked to some people about it that's fine, but as I said that could be any number of people. I care less how you surveyed them, when you surveyed them, but exactly how many you surveyed if of interest when it is something which effects numerous people.

An article or announcement like I indicated would no be asking too much. If you surveyed 1000 people from around the world then say out of 1000 people surveyed this tended to be the response. If you don't want people to know how many then you generalize your statement, i.e. our marketing research indicates this is a proper response. I'll buy it, I won't like it, but I'll buy it. As I said I understand the need for keeping market research hushed sometimes. However when you start being specific that demands clarification. Well we talked to a few people and this is what they said. How many? I can't say. See what I'm getting at?

Most businesses conducting surveys spins the statistics or mentions the numbers to further their cause, i.e. 7 out of 10 doctors surveyed, 3 out of four people responded. Then they follow up with how many surveyed or give you information as to where to find their tallies. They want the numbers to speak for themselves.

I just want them to be a little more straight forward, even if it is just "Marketing indicated it's a better choice. Unfortunately I can't say anymore as it falls under our NDA."

And there is nothing wrong with being a sheep. The number of murders among sheep is pretty low, if not infinitesimally small.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm not accusing them of anything. I'm just stating that when you deal with a hobby you normally don't keep things which affect it secret.

They don't keep market research for your benefit. It's an expensive endevour. They do it so that they can create products that sell. They aren't going to share it because they spend too much money on research to just hand it to all their competitors. Quite literally, they don't care whether or not you believe them. Their market research isn't a marketing move. It makes them money even if everyone outside the company believes it as much as they believe in the tooth fairy.

There's no reason for you to worry about whether or not the Draconomicon II will make money.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

The number of murders among sheep is pretty low, if not infinitesimally small.

Where are you getting your numbers for this?

Back on topic, I wonder how well they expect the (still theoretical, at this point) Draconomicon II, The Metallic Dragons to sell, since metallic dragons won't make very good adversaries for your typical good-aligned party...

Later
silver

 

[dm4hire]

I'll have to contact sheep marketing, I'm sure they have it somewhere.

As for book II, I am sure it will sell pretty well. I'll buy it as it pertains to dragons. Though with alignment not being connected to dragons anymore I don't think it will be a problem versus good parties as you could just as easily come across an evil aligned gold dragon now as red, or at least one whose motivations work against the party under the current circumstances.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well given that Metallic Dragons are not neccesairly good this time around they can be opponents to PCs.

I also imagine they will delve deep into Dragon controlled kingdoms and how a Metallic Dragon would control and maintain the area under his command.

Probably give an example of a well-maintained nice kingdom, ruled by a benevolent Metallic Dragon.

Another by a dictatorial and menacing Metallic Dragon.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'm just stating that when you deal with a hobby you normally don't keep things which affect it secret.

To you, it's a hobby. To WotC, it's how they make income. If they let everyone in the industry know what gamers like, they just paid to give their competitors an advantage. That's generous and all, but it's not business-savvy.

Most businesses conducting surveys spins the statistics or mentions the numbers to further their cause, i.e. 7 out of 10 doctors surveyed, 3 out of four people responded.

You're thinking of pharmaceutical companies that are trying to get the public to influence the FDA for their financial benefit.

Then they follow up with how many surveyed or give you information as to where to find their tallies. They want the numbers to speak for themselves.

Yeah, because their goal is to convince you that their product is safe through numbers. That's what those surveys are for. RPG industry market research serves an entirely different purpose.

I just want them to be a little more straight forward, even if it is just "Marketing indicated it's a better choice. Unfortunately I can't say anymore as it falls under our NDA."

That's why they say things like "You guys told us that 3e had too much prep work involved." Mearls posted a list of the top 13 complaints they had about 3e. They're talking about their market research in exactly the way you're asking: loose terms.