WotC has a milking machine now (Draconomicon I)

[Lonely Tylenol]

Experience and refusing to wear pink glasses.

Ah, conspiracy theorists.

+ Gem dragons + other dragons.
How many different dragons were there in 3E? And when you look into the news there are already people asking for a Draconomicon III Gem Dragons.

I guess this refutes your "dragon fatigue" hypothesis.

Considering that in 3E one book was enough (and it was considered a very good book by many) I don't see a reason why now they have to split this book up into 2 or more. (Except money/marketing considerations of course).

In 3e all dragons were pretty much identical except for their breath weapons and spell-like abilities. In 4e I get the impression they're trying to differentiate them to a greater degree, just like they're doing with other monsters that are similar to each other (esp. humanoids). Draconomicon wasn't really about dragons, but was instead about dragon feats, dragon spells, spells for dragons, feats for dragons, dragon gods, dragon prestige classes, prestige classes for dragons, etc. It was just another 3e book full of more feats, spells, and prestige classes. But the art was the shizzle, and nothing in it was notably broken, so it was very well received.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Is it some kind of crusade to find everything about 4e to be a flaw?

This.

 

[Derren]

Ah, conspiracy theorists.

No, just someone who doesn't believe that 4E will automatically be better in every way than 3E just because it is new, that the designers do everything right this time and someone who draws on his previous experiences of what developers normally promise and how the finished product looks like in the end.

I guess this refutes your "dragon fatigue" hypothesis.

Actually not unless there is only a single D&D player in the world who you can ask about his opinion.

In 3e all dragons were pretty much identical except for their breath weapons and spell-like abilities. In 4e I get the impression they're trying to differentiate them to a greater degree, just like they're doing with other monsters that are similar to each other (esp. humanoids). Draconomicon wasn't really about dragons, but was instead about dragon feats, dragon spells, spells for dragons, feats for dragons, dragon gods, dragon prestige classes, prestige classes for dragons, etc. It was just another 3e book full of more feats, spells, and prestige classes. But the art was the shizzle, and nothing in it was notably broken, so it was very well received.

And guess what you will become with the 4E Draconomicons? Except that you now get twice as many new rules and abilities for dragons.
Wasn't a goal to make dragons easier to run? Well, I don't complain but many people will.

 

[Cadfan]

Actually, I want to amend my above post. If one of the Draconomicons includes dragons who are not supergenius spellcasting masterminds like current D&D dragons, but rather a wide variety of big scaly lizards with lizard like IQs and a tendency to eat people, I may buy one.

 

[Derren]

Actually, I want to amend my above post. If one of the Draconomicons includes dragons who are not supergenius spellcasting masterminds like current D&D dragons, but rather a wide variety of big scaly lizards with lizard like IQs and a tendency to eat people, I may buy one.

Look at the MM under "Wyvern"

 

[Echohawk]

How many different dragons were there in 3E?

At least 74.

[sblock]Adamantine Dragon
Amethyst Dragon
Arboreal Dragon
Astral Dragon
Axial Dragon
Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon
Battle Dragon
Beast Dragon
Black Dragon
Blue Dragon
Brainstealer Dragon
Brass Dragon
Bronze Dragon
Brown Dragon
Chaos Dragon
Chiang Lung (River Dragon)
Chole Dragon
Chromium Dragon
Cobalt Dragon
Concordant Dragon
Copper Dragon
Crystal Dragon
Deep Dragon
Dragon, Incarnum
Dragon, Sand
Dragonnel
Elysian Dragon
Emerald Dragon
Ethereal Dragon
Faerie Dragon
Fang Dragon
Force Dragon
Gloom Dragon
Gold Dragon
Green Dragon
Greyhawk Dragon
Hex Dragon
Howling Dragon
Iron Dragon
Li Lung (Earth Dragon)
Lung Wang (Sea Dragon)
Mercury Dragon
Mist Dragon
Nickel Dragon
Oceanus Dragon
Orange Dragon
Pan Lung (Coiled Dragon)
Prismatic Dragon
Pseudodragon
Purple Dragon
Pyroclastic Dragon
Radiant Dragon
Rattelyr Dragon
Red Dragon
Rust Dragon
Sapphire Dragon
Shadow Dragon
Shen Lung (Spirit Dragon)
Silver Dragon
Song Dragon
Spiretop Dragon
Steel Dragon
Styx Dragon
Tarterian Dragon
Tiamat, the Chromatic Dragon
T'ien Lung (Celestial Dragon)
Time Dragon
Tome Dragon
Topaz Dragon
Tun Mi Lung (Typhoon Dragon)
Tungsten Dragon
White Dragon
Yellow Dragon
Yu Lung (Carp Dragon)[/sblock]

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

No, just someone who doesn't believe that 4E will automatically be better in every way than 3E just because it is new, that the designers do everything right this time and someone who draws on his previous experiences of what developers normally promise and how the finished product looks like in the end.

But not, apparently on what this finished product looks like in the end. Also, my experience (which I'll bet a cookie is at least as pedigreed as yours) is that TSR had a bad case of supplement churn, and generally went downhill over time, but WotC has been fairly focused with their supplements by comparison, and has actually improved over time. As someone pointed out upthread, they don't repeat mistakes.

Actually not unless there is only a single D&D player in the world who you can ask about his opinion.

Hey, wow, did you notice that your refutation to my point on the grounds of statistical irrelevance also refutes your original point on the subject, on the grounds of statistical irrelevance? Isn't that funny?

And guess what you will become with the 4E Draconomicons? Except that you now get twice as many new rules and abilities for dragons.
Wasn't a goal to make dragons easier to run? Well, I don't complain but many people will.

Ahh, groundless speculation. It makes the internet possible!

 

[Cadfan]

At least 74.

[sblock]Adamantine Dragon
Amethyst Dragon
Arboreal Dragon
Astral Dragon
Axial Dragon
Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon
Battle Dragon
Beast Dragon
Black Dragon
Blue Dragon
Brainstealer Dragon
Brass Dragon
Bronze Dragon
Brown Dragon
Chaos Dragon
Chiang Lung (River Dragon)
Chole Dragon
Chromium Dragon
Cobalt Dragon
Concordant Dragon
Copper Dragon
Crystal Dragon
Deep Dragon
Dragon, Incarnum
Dragon, Sand
Dragonnel
Elysian Dragon
Emerald Dragon
Ethereal Dragon
Faerie Dragon
Fang Dragon
Force Dragon
Gloom Dragon
Gold Dragon
Green Dragon
Greyhawk Dragon
Hex Dragon
Howling Dragon
Iron Dragon
Li Lung (Earth Dragon)
Lung Wang (Sea Dragon)
Mercury Dragon
Mist Dragon
Nickel Dragon
Oceanus Dragon
Orange Dragon
Pan Lung (Coiled Dragon)
Prismatic Dragon
Pseudodragon
Purple Dragon
Pyroclastic Dragon
Radiant Dragon
Rattelyr Dragon
Red Dragon
Rust Dragon
Sapphire Dragon
Shadow Dragon
Shen Lung (Spirit Dragon)
Silver Dragon
Song Dragon
Spiretop Dragon
Steel Dragon
Styx Dragon
Tarterian Dragon
Tiamat, the Chromatic Dragon
T'ien Lung (Celestial Dragon)
Time Dragon
Tome Dragon
Topaz Dragon
Tun Mi Lung (Typhoon Dragon)
Tungsten Dragon
White Dragon
Yellow Dragon
Yu Lung (Carp Dragon)[/sblock]

DUDE! Now we need crossbred dragon hybrids. Iron Dragon + Yu Lung Dragon = Iron Lung Dragon. And I won't even start on the things you could create by crossbreeding the Lung Wang Dragon.

 

[Mirtek]

Considering that in 3E one book was enough (and it was considered a very good book by many) I don't see a reason why now they have to split this book up into 2 or more. (Except money/marketing considerations of course).

On the other hand in 2e we had three books dealing with the deities of Toril (and they were ranked among the finest of 2e books by many) and 3e simply dealt with them in a single book (which was mostly seen as a misstake)

My dear neighbor to the south. Why is everything always a worst case scenario with you?

It's the german way of life (really, no joke intended). That's also why we're especially alienated by all this designers talk how cool, fun and great the new edition is going to be. Just way too much positive attributes for our mindset. You have to say "I have this new product you may like" if you want to get a German to consider trying it (and don't forget to sound bored of your own product). If you tell him "I have this great new product you will absolutely love" you're just making him deeply suspicious because you're too positive.

 

[Wolfspider]

DUDE! Now we need crossbred dragon hybrids. Iron Dragon + Yu Lung Dragon = Iron Lung Dragon. And I won't even start on the things you could create by crossbreeding the Lung Wang Dragon.

HA! HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHA!

Ahem.

HA!