WotC: Let's Improve the Weapon List, Shall We?

[Primitive Screwhead]

Originally Posted by Primitive Screwhead
Its always seemed silly that a a Rogue could burn a feat on Greatsword and not be able to use a Broadsword

I disagree. Learning to swing a cricket bat proplerly doesn't each you how to use a tennis racquet well. The principle is the same.

However learning Cricket would make it easier to learn tennis because the base mechanics {swing item to hit ball} are the same.

A Greatsword and a BroadSword are both hefty chunk of metal that you swing into your opponent. IMHO, the cost of a Feat should cover both of these weapons, but not ..say.. a Rapier {since its a light stabby piece of metal}
Weapon groups make much more sense to me. The only time I have ever had a character take the Martial Weapon feat was for a particular style I was going for.

In my current game, a player has a Fighter who specialized in GreatSword. The only magic weapons to show up so far have been a Bastard Sword and a Warhammer... he is the only character not hit with the non-weapon proficiency penalty, but prefers his non-magical Greatsword.... If the system had Weapon Groups he could have specialized in ' hefty chunk of metal that you swing into your opponent' an used his Feats with the Bastard Sword.

So, IMHO Weapon Groups are better than discrete proficiencies.

*dreams about a very different magic item/economic system in D&D, where you are really HAPPY to find a masterwork sword".

Have you looked at the Black Company rules?
Of course, its the *lack* of 'magic' weapons that make the masterwork weapons cool, not just the expanded attributes {they aren't just a '+1'}

 

[VirgilCaine]

I agree with most of that except for one part. You are in a small group, fighting a small group, but, often the enemies are not armed - they're monsters. Trying to use a sword on a bear is certainly less useful than using a spear. Now, scale the bear up several sizes to a wyvern or, well, anything Large or bigger, and a sword isn't going to do much more than make the baddie angry.

That's why you have class levels and magic weapons and massive strength. Also, that's why it's D&D.

Edit: Without class levels, magic weapons, massive strength, neither a polearm or a sword will hurt a Wyvern very much, in either GURPS or D&D.

In GURPS you might want to get a giant to throw rocks at it or use alchemical items or poisoned or flaming arrows from a dozen archers, or wait until it's sleeping and sneak up and go for it's vitals or something else like that (unless you were actually badass enough to take it on head-on).

But in D&D by default, if you're of any decent level (5th+ or so), you stab the hell out of the wyvern, the rogue flanks and sneak attacks, wizard and cleric hit it with spells, and you kill it.

Edit: Also, PCs might have to go where there's not a whole lot of ceiling clearance sometimes--caves, burrows, dwarf halls, etc.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, true. It gets down to where your suspension of disbelief breaks down.

Honestly though, I'm just tired of swords being the top of the heap. Let's have some equality for most weapons and then you choose based on concept rather than on mechanics.

 

[Warbringer]

To be honest, you'd have to make a masterwork weapon give you more than a +1 bonus to hit to make that a consideration. You'd probably need some rules for weapons breaking in normal use based on what they were hitting.

"Ah the kids today. I remember when we'd be happy to find a masterwork sword. Then we'd take it back to or encampment, slogging up hill both ways through snow, because it always snowed, even in summer, and we were lucky to have snow because there many poor souls that had to go without..."

I agree... I'd love to see more differentiation between a masterwork sword, inferring great balance, and an inferior sword. In other systems were skill is incremental in percenatge points is easier to do... I'm having problems thinking of how to do it in DnD without introducing penalties for inferior weapns (like -1/-2 to damage, -1 to AC, breaks is it does more than (2xweapon damage) in a single blow

 

[Sadrik]

Fixing now...

Melee
2-Handed 1d12 + STR + SIZ mod
Heavy 1d10 + STR + SIZ mod
1-Handed 1d8 + STR + SIZ mod
Light 1d6 + STR + SIZ mod
Small 1d4 + STR + SIZ mod

Ranged
2-Handed 1d12 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Heavy 1d10 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
1-Handed 1d8 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Light 1d6 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Small 1d4 + virtual STR + SIZ mod

Then add templates:
Hammer +1 Dmg crits on a 20/2
Axe crits on a 20/x3
Power Sword crits on a 19-20/x2
Finesse Sword -1 Dmg crits on a 18-20/x2
Shield -1 to -4 Dmg for +1 to +4 shield bonus to AC
etc

 

[Aage]

Melee
2-Handed 1d12 + STR + SIZ mod
Heavy 1d10 + STR + SIZ mod
1-Handed 1d8 + STR + SIZ mod
Light 1d6 + STR + SIZ mod
Small 1d4 + STR + SIZ mod

Ranged
2-Handed 1d12 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Heavy 1d10 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
1-Handed 1d8 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Light 1d6 + virtual STR + SIZ mod
Small 1d4 + virtual STR + SIZ mod

This, and then add som fun special abilities to each type of weapon

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I love the idea of beefing up the effectiveness of both crossbow and spear.

WRT crossbows/str damage. . . don't make the user's strength matter as far as how much damage the weapon does by applying it as a bonus. . .

Instead, make the weapon require a certain strength to use effectively. Maybe that's something that ought to be applied to all weapons! (Requiring a certain stat. Dual-wielding daggers might require a 16 dex for instance.)

I think I actually caught a wiff of this in a writeup somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Anyway. . . let's see spears and crossbows become worthwhile weapons!!


Edit: . . . and spear and shield fighting ought to be a worthwhile approach to combat. No, the short spear doesn't count. People used long spears all the time and it worked just fine. It should't require a big feat chain or anything to do it. Neither should the more effective crossbows.

 

[Aage]

I'm all for making crossbows viable, but please not via a feat/talent that allows free action reload... that's just... ridiculous

 

[Sadrik]

Every weapon should have a strength modifier behind it. Regardless of its source. A sword is "strength" powered, a thrown spear is "strength" powered, a bow is "strength" powered but should also have some of its own "strength" added in. A crossbow is all from its own power and of course firearms are very small projectiles that have a lot of "strength" behind them.

One of the things that has always bothered me about 3e weapons is that some weapons got strength and some did not. How crappy is a 1d8 crossbow when you have a bow that adds the wielders strength in. This whole effect trickled down to d20 modern with firearms. All weapons should have some modifier. as a damage bonus.

Here is another thing that could be added to this system.

What is a spear?

Essentially: a dagger on the end of a stick. Yet it does a lot more damage than a dagger does. Is that right? You can do more with a spear than you can with a dagger; set it for a charge hold somebody back from you. So a dagger and a spear should do 1d4 damage.

Shields- they should be considered weapons and in fact all weapons should provide some bonus (+0 to +4) to AC spears for instance are better than daggers in this regard.

So my proposed system would be how big the business end of the weapon is + some strength modifier. The strength modifier can be from the wielder or from the actual mechanics of the weapon or both (bows, atl atls). Also, I would change the idea that only shields give a bonus to AC. Some weapons when wielded properly are very defensive (spears, shields, and swords).

 

[Sadrik]

pierce- crits on a 20/x4
slash- crits on a 19-20/x3
chop- crits on a 20/x3
bludgeon- crits on a 20/x2
2-handed- 1 1/2 STR
1-handed- STR

Examples:
Greatsword 1d12+STR, +1 parry bonus to AC, slash
Longsword 1d8+STR, +1 parry bonus to AC, slash
Battleaxe 1d8+STR, chop
Dagger 1d4+STR, slash
Long Spear 1d4+STR, reach, +1 parry bonus to AC, pierce
Short Spear 1d4+STR, +1 parry bonus to AC, thrown, pierce
Light Shield 1d4+STR, +2 parry bonus to AC, hand free, bludgeon
Heavy Shield 1d4+STR, +4 parry bonus to AC, bludgeon
Short Bow 1d4+STR, medium range, pierce
Long Bow 1d4+2+STR, long range, pierce
Hand crossbow 1d4+2, medium range, pierce
Light Crossbow 1d4+4, long range, pierce
Heavy Crossbow 1d4+8, long range, long reload, pierce