WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Snarf Zagyg]

Still taking, allegedly.

So let's be clear on a few things.

When people talk about "union busting," there is a clear different between today and over 100 years ago. I know that people like to conflate the two things, but they are different. A century ago, you had, quite literally, pitched battles with casualties. Now, you have concerted ... but LEGAL ... efforts by corporations to keep unions from organizing.

There are, unfortunately, a number of law firms that specialize in helping these corporations. They all hire PI firms. That said, the actions of the majority of the PI firms that are hired (including Pinkerton) are entirely within the law. It's no different than hiring a PI to "spy on" your spouse that you think is cheating on you- distasteful, but lawful (so long as other laws aren't broken).

If you actually care about the rights of workers- AND YOU SHOULD, then instead of invoking old timey stuff that doesn't matter anymore, you should be pushing for structural change in, inter alia, the NLRA and state laws. Start with basic things, like the remedies afforded for violations. For example, did you know that if a company retaliates against a worker for organizing ... the remedy is just reinstatement and back pay? That's right- that's why companies feel relatively free to act against workers. The process is slow and the penalties are light.

And they know that people, the good people that comment on this forum? They are going to be "Oh, the PINKERTON! I PLAYED RED DEAD!!!!! THEY MURDER PEOPLE!!!!" And then go back to happily ordering their plastic stuff from Amazon.

If you want to affect real change, there's a lot you can do- educating yourself about what the actual issues are is a start. The issue isn't just what's unlawful ... the issue is what companies are legally allowed to get away with.

 

[ReshiIRE]

I was unable to find many stories about the Pinkertons from researching via Google. There may be better places to search.

I did find this story:

Pinkerton Security Guards Coming Back to Denver

After city officials tried to run the famous Pinkerton agency out of town following a fatal shooting at a protest in October 2020, the security agency is once again allowed to operate in Denver.

On March 22, the Denver Department of Excise & Licenses issued Pinkerton Consulting and Investigations a security license that allows the company to employ security guards armed with firearms in the city. The license is valid until October 16.

"This case will hopefully serve as a significant reminder to private security guard companies in Denver about the importance of only employing licensed guards," says Eric Escudero, a spokesperson for Excise & Licenses.

The issuance of the security license comes in the aftermath of a lengthy administrative and legal battle between the City of Denver and Pinkerton that began with the shooting death of Lee Keltner in October 2020.




Keltner was protesting at a right-leaning "Patriot Muster" rally in Civic Center Park that was happening side by side with a counterprotest by leftist activists. As the event was winding down, Keltner slapped Matthew Dolloff, a security guard providing security to a 9News team, and sprayed Mace at him.

Dolloff, who turned out to have been hired by a Pinkerton subcontractor to work the event for 9News, shot and killed Keltner. Although he was charged with second-degree murder, Denver District Attorney Beth McCann dismissed the charge against Dolloff in March 2022 after her office concluded that the security guard, who didn't have a license at the time of the shooting, was acting in self-defense.

After the shooting, the Department of Excise & Licenses issued an order to show cause as to why Pinkerton should not have its security license suspended or revoked. Initially, it looked like Pinkerton would be able to keep working in the Mile High City, as the security agency and the Denver City Attorney's Office came to a settlement agreement. However, Ashley Kilroy, then-executive director of Excise & Licenses, rejected the deal — leading to a hearing in February 2021.

An administrative officer serving as the judge during that hearing concluded that Pinkerton's license should be suspended for six months for failure to comply with local laws, and found that the company was also responsible for "acts and omissions" of the subcontractor that hired Dolloff. By that point, the subcontractor, Jason Isborn, had already agreed to surrender his security license to Excise & Licenses.

There was also this story:

The Pinkertons Still Never Sleep

Workers at the telecommunications company Frontier Communications have been on strike for 20 days in West Virginia and Virginia. Their grievances are familiar ones: Workers want more protection from layoffs, better health care coverage, and the return of contracted work to the bargaining unit. The workers’ union, Communications Workers of America, says the company is refusing to meet workers even part-way and has brought in replacement workers, or scabs. Furthermore, Frontier has hired some muscle: the Pinkertons.

Frontier has alleged that some of its cables have been cut with an axe or shot with a shotgun, and that striking workers have driven “recklessly” around work sites. The Associated Press reported on Tuesday that Frontier has offered a reward of $10,000 for information about the identity of the vandals, and the company took out a temporary injunction that it said it needed to keep the strike peaceful. In Frontier’s legal complaint was the news that the company was employing Pinkerton Consulting & Investigations for “security services,” and that the Pinkertons claimed that striking workers had “abused” them, according to the West Virginia Gazette-Mail.

Workers dispute Frontier’s accusations. In fact, a scab committed the strike’s only threat of violence when he pulled out a gun to intimidate strikers. Pinkerton’s appearance in the Frontier saga makes sense for a number of reasons, chief among them the fact that the strike is a particularly heated one.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I was unable to find many stories about the Pinkertons from researching via Google. There may be better places to search.

I did find this story:

Pinkerton Security Guards Coming Back to Denver

There was also this story:

The Pinkertons Still Never Sleep

Blair Mountain 2K18.

In West Virginia no less!

 

[darjr]

However, it is also consistent with WotC not having handed the investigators a detailed script to follow. These are things someone experienced in recovering property might say independently to get the job done, if not instructed to do otherwise.

Which is exactly why you’d hire someone based on reputation. They have one.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

and he did the one thing he KNEW would get clicks and views despite knowing it wasn't the right thing or smart thing to do

I don't think anyone thinks the guy isn't a dumbass/dimwit.

That doesn't make this right. You can't send armed men to someone's doorstep for this kind of thing. You send lawyers or process servers. If you're scared the lawyer will get shot or something, send a discreet bodyguard.

It's no different than hiring a PI to "spy on" your spouse that you think is cheating on you- distasteful, but lawful (so long as other laws aren't broken).

I mean, that itself isn't merely distasteful, in many cases it scrapes very close to illegal, and is certainly a good way to permanently lose friends and ensure you're on the "bad side" in the divorce despite being the wronged party - it's terrible personal PR - but here you are failing to acknowledge the intimidation factor with the Pinkertons.

The reality is, the Pinkerton brand is associated in the minds of the public (and that includes people who work at corporations) with violence and strike-breaking. RDR2 is merely the most recent thing to feature them - it's odd that you keep bringing that up given we all learned about that stuff decades ago - hell I was about 12 or 14 when I first heard o them - in the UK! Thus when you intentionally hire that brand, of dozens of brands you could have chosen, to interfere with your unionizing or striking workers, you are sending a message.

At best, you might be so out of touch you don't realize you are sending a message, or doing your buddies a favour - which seems like it might have been the case here, given the risk manager was apparently ex-Pinkerton (so it is claimed upthread). Yet you still are sending a message. One might also note some risk managers have something of a history of crossing lines, but that's a whole other discussion.

I would argue that, in fact, the Pinkertons are intentionally trading on this name, on this "history of violence", even though the worst of it is from many decades ago. That is why they're still called that, but other organisations which had poor associations went through multiple name changes.

 

[Mannahnin]

As of today they are known for armed union busting and standing on people’s doorsteps acting like authorities making threats over magic cards.

If you define explaining to a person that IF the goods they currently hold turn out to be stolen, that they could potentially be liable under statute as threatening, then the latter seems likely what happened. I'm not sure I define that particular behavior as threatening; a lot would come down to tone and context, which we're missing.

Could you cite sources for current-day union armed union busting? When @Dausuul tried digging into that about ten pages back the one source he found was an article saying "that Amazon had hired Pinkerton to investigate an allegation that managers were coaching job applicants." Which doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Could you cite sources for current-day union armed union busting? When @Dausuul tried digging into that about ten pages back the one source he found was an article saying "that Amazon had hired Pinkerton to investigate an allegation that managers were coaching job applicants." Which doesn't sound too bad.

They're always armed in the field as I understand it, unless they literally can't be and they're literally employed to prevent unionization and intimidate strikers. I'm not sure what more you want. They're hired because their name and history are intimidating.

 

[Gradine]

This tweet thread about sums up what I think the issue is here and what's really happening with this event:

 

[Mannahnin]

Still taking, allegedly.

Thank you.

SHAPIRO: We asked Amazon for comment, and they told us that they hire Pinkerton to secure shipments. And they said, quote, "We do not use our partners to gather intelligence on warehouse workers." Is that consistent with what these documents show?

GURLEY: No. So - not at all. The documents say Pinkerton operatives were inserted into an Amazon warehouse in Wroclaw, Poland, to investigate an allegation that warehouse workers were circumventing sort of the application process for applying to warehouse jobs, so I would say that it goes directly against what Amazon is saying. They indeed, at least in this one instance we know, if these documents are correct, that Amazon has used Pinkertons explicitly to spy on warehouse workers.

SHAPIRO: Amazon also told us that everything they do is fully legal. What does the law say about union organizing activities and surveilling workers?

GURLEY: Right. I think the laws are a lot - I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the laws are a lot stronger in Europe than they are in the United States. In the United States, the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 protects workers' rights to join trade unions, to organize, to engage in concerted activities to improve their working conditions. Now, there are also lots of laws that make that difficult. So lots of companies around the United States - it's very common for them to hold anti-union campaigns when workers seek to organize. And it's sort of up to the NLRB, the national labor board. They determine whether that's legal or not.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Could you cite sources for current-day union armed union busting? When @Dausuul tried digging into that about ten pages back the one source he found was an article saying "that Amazon had hired Pinkerton to investigate an allegation that managers were coaching job applicants." Which doesn't sound too bad.

Right here in the article posted just upthread.

The Pinkertons Still Never Sleep

The notorious union-busting agency has resurfaced in a telecommunications labor dispute, revealing how it has adapted to the 21st century.

newrepublic.com