[WOTC] Revised Corebooks for July confirmed with info

[jgbrowning]

The owner of the FLGS wasn't terribly pleased; he couldn't sell the copy (copies?) of CCI, Unrevised that he had, even at 50% off.

Just so you don't feel left out.

Yeh, i think there are alot of people in the gaming industry gonna be a wee bit cheesed off at WotC. Retailers, distributors (great i bought how many of these things that no retailer is now going to re-order?), customers.

I think everyone agrees the updates are needed.. the contention seems to be over the form of the update... I think WotC could have chose some alternate method that would have benefited everyone in the chain, not just themselves. Kinda like the concept of OGL.


joe b.

 

[Fast Learner]

Re: Re: Disgusted!

And I don't think that currency exchange rates work that way... do cars cost there 10x what they cost in the states?

No, of course not. A South African Rand is worth about .10 US dollars, so the book would be about 300 rand if it was purchased in the US with South African money.

However, due to duties, shipping, and general availability prices can vary a great deal. You can buy a huge chunk of amber in Berlin (brought in from the Ukraine) for $10 US, something that would easily run $100 or more here in the US. As such it's not hard to imagine that a PHB in South Africa is considerably more than 300 rand.

But there's no way it's 3000 rand.

 

[Fast Learner]

I think everyone agrees the updates are needed.. the contention seems to be over the form of the update... I think WotC could have chose some alternate method that would have benefited everyone in the chain, not just themselves. Kinda like the concept of OGL.

Personally, I'd much rather have whole new books rather than a compendium book of changes. If I had to check two places for, say, clarified grappling rules (and had to remember which book had the current version), I'd go nuts.

 

[Sulimo]

Re: Re: [WOTC] Revised Corebooks for July confirmed with info

just me or does that sound like they're going to repackage what they've already put out in different books and just call it "new"?

ie? FR's spells, splatbook stuff...?

lemme guess, the new campaign setting will come out two months later and use the new revised rules?

A single new book, called, say perhaps "Errata and Clarifications" that would sell for 30$ is just right outta the picture...

That was my reaction too. Its going to be interesting to see how much material actually noew-never-published material.

I wonder what they'll do with the Ranger.

 

[Mercule]

Now its more move the little figure here, hit that other little figure. No matter how scary your discription is no one is scared when you plonk an inch-high lump of metal on the table.

Really? I've not had that experience. My players' reactions haven't changed at all -- unless of course you include the fact that they are more coherent and there are fewer miscommunications.

Actually, I take that back. The PCs are _more_ reactive when I throw in a big critter (dragon, etc.) because they can see just how big it is and they know how screwed they are due to reach.

 

[Numion]

Re: Re: Re: Disgusted!

No, of course not. A South African Rand is worth about .10 US dollars, so the book would be about 300 rand if it was purchased in the US with South African money.

However, due to duties, shipping, and general availability prices can vary a great deal. You can buy a huge chunk of amber in Berlin (brought in from the Ukraine) for $10 US, something that would easily run $100 or more here in the US. As such it's not hard to imagine that a PHB in South Africa is considerably more than 300 rand.

But there's no way it's 3000 rand.

Yeah.. here in finland the books that cost $40 in states are around 50 EUR = $50, so it's a little bit more expensive. It's just that the original poster I quoted said something about the PHB alone costing $300, due to $1 being 10 rand..

I guess you got that already

 

[Desdichado]

Re: Re: Disgusted!

And I don't think that currency exchange rates work that way... do cars cost there 10x what they cost in the states?

Since we sell cars there, I can answer that. No.

Exchange rates are somewhat artificial -- in theory, the buying power is the same despite what the number says. As a general rule, I've found this to be true when I've travelled abroad. However, shipping, duties and other types of cost can make them more expensive for completely different reasons.

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

I can see the advantages to clarified rules and better examples and layout. But I can't see any good coming of changed rules.

It's a matter of code forking (to stick with the OGL's own comparison to open source). We'll have almost three years of material written to the original books by the time these come out. (Well, except Monte's recent stuff, and the slowdown of releases that fear of rules changes may cause in 3rd party publishers.) After they're out, everyone has to decide which variant of d20 to write for. Original? Revised? Arcana Unearthed? Own variant?

Books aren't code, they can't all be easily revised to the current rules version, and, unlike open source code, can't simply be downloaded for (near) free when updates are put out.

Even if the only rules changes are simply feat and spell additions, that still means that players and DM's who want to be able to easily use future material will have to either buy the revised rules or be prepared to rewrite statblocks for npcs and creatures who use those feats and spells. (Or are new types of creatures.) I always approved of Wizards' policy of not referencing outside of the core books in their adventures. Now they'll have to choose which books to reference.

Actually, I think this is more of a new version of the rules, which, while a big problem in a dead-tree, non-free environment, isn't nearly as difficult to deal with as proprietary changes to the core system that makes one companies products not work with everyone else's.


On a different tangent; does anyone know if these books are finished yet? They're not releasing untill next summer, so where in production would they be right now?

 

[frankthedm]

Originally posted by Bagpuss

Now its more move the little figure here, hit that other little figure. No matter how scary your discription is no one is scared when you plonk an inch-high lump of metal on the table.
------------------------------------

Are you sure your played have not fallen into 3e's CR rigged fight system?[ they ALWAYS expect to fight things they can defeat] If you players think you won't put a fig down they can't beat then Let the bodies hit the floor until they do. Heavy handed, yes, but I do NOT think a DM should have to EXPLAIN to the players there are fights they can't win. their own lives should of told them this. try using foes that CANNOT be beat by blade or spell. To get it through their tick skulls that battle mat does not = win with violence.

Act like the mini you are using for the thing is only a close approximation. If they don’t automatically know what they fight by the mini, they will be a lot less cocky. Don't stop describing the action once the mini is down on the mat. tell them that they can now see on the horrid thing, not wholly ape and not wholly insect that towers over the group, are four dripping holes where its two eyes should be along with a fist sized cavity in the thing midsection that vile rotting ichor pours from rather than just saying here’s the mini for the zombie umber hulk. It looks like someone punched a hole in its thorax and plucked out its eyes. Mark the drippings on the battle mat and maybe even say ”so are you stepping ON the slime?” when they close in for melee. most players are now going to worry about getting that gunk on them.

Try not using minis once in a while. Always having them out can degrade things almost to board game levels. Also don't be afraid to remove the mini from the board once it moves behind a sight blocking obstacle. once you destroy the "I always know where the foe is" mentality, one little peg that supports the player’s feeling of invulnerability is kicked out from under them. if one player peruses pull their mini off the board until the rest follow.

Inch high? If I want to scare the players in a Heroic game I bust out the monstrous action figures and Vinyl model kits. little foes for little heroes, BIG foes for big heroes
I am working on a tarrasque from a star wars rancor and have 2 red dragon of Krynn model kits [2 feet long each]

 

[the Jester]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Disgusted!

Talk about a dumb explanation.

You complain that you will have to buy the book because everyone else will buy the book and you won't be able to chat on the internet about it accurately any longer.

:rolleyes

To me the issue is more like, will I be able to use the new products that came out? Back before the release of 2e, there was a lot of talk about how you wouldn't need to buy the new edition- it would still work fine with 1e rulebooks. But if you only had 1e rules, how did you run a module with a cleric with the animal and plant domains and access to a bow?

I'm afraid there may be similar problems here. I can just see the new player bringing his bard into an established campaign that already has a bard... suddenly, the new bard (who's a level lower than the old one) has about thirty extra skill points.



I don't think I'm the only one who has real issues about this. It would be one thing if there was a small, $10 booklet that would have just the changes in it. But there won't be.