WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[drnuncheon]

Flying carpets, ships and chariots, even an entire flying hunt all have mythological basis, and therefore fit very easily in people's conceptions of what is especially "correct" to be enchanted to fly in swords and sorcery fantasy. A flying wagon perhaps less so, but a wagon belongs in a medieval type setting too. A train doesn't....at least, not without some convincing context to convince the readers' suspension of disbelief otherwise.

But we're not talking about what is "correct" by anyone's impression of sword and sorcery. Nick has made some accusations that he cannot back up: he has repeatedly said that the world has non-medieval technology, and he's implied that the setting is somehow bad, or in opposition to what WOTC said they were looking for.

What he apparently means is "something that looks like a train doesn't fit in with my idea of heroic fantasy". That's fine, that's an opinion. But to say that a society capable of making flying galleons could not make flying wagons because that's "technology" is pretty silly IMO.

J

 

[Spatula]

I have to say that this aspect is one that really pisses me off - the settings all had to include the usual races, in which case none of them are likely to be that original, or they have to go through the tack of being completely unrelated to the usual fantasy Dwarf, Elf etc stereotype, in which case they get picked on for doing weird things (What do you mean, Dwarves are more at home on the oceans than anywhere else and hate being underground?), with absolutely nothing in common with the stereotypes, which will only piss people off.

Yeah, just like the non-stereotyped races in Dark Sun pissed everyone off.

 

[rounser]

But we're not talking about what is "correct" by anyone's impression of sword and sorcery. Nick has made some accusations that he cannot back up: he has repeatedly said that the world has non-medieval technology, and he's implied that the setting is somehow bad, or in opposition to what WOTC said they were looking for.

That's Nick's stance; take that up with him.

What he apparently means is "something that looks like a train doesn't fit in with my idea of heroic fantasy". That's fine, that's an opinion. But to say that a society capable of making flying galleons could not make flying wagons because that's "technology" is pretty silly IMO.

It's not about the "could". You "could" do all sorts of things with magic that could totally obliterate the pseudo-medieval feel of a swords & sorcery fantasy world. It's about the "does it fit". If you can't see the difference, then I consider that a bit silly too.

I've already outlined why flying galleons are somewhat less likely to challenge suspension of disbelief than flying wagons - see above. Flying ships are a staple of swords & sorcery fantasy; flying wagons, considerably less so - chariots usually get that treatment instead. Regardless, flying wagons are much more acceptable than flying trains, because wagons are medieval tech, and trains aren't.

I think Eberron will need a convincing context for lightning rails to overcome such obstacles, and it may well have one. Dark Sun, which was sort of post-apocalyptic dark future swords and sandals crossed with swords & sorcery, had a convincing context for what it presented. Eberron may well have one too, but lightning rails will have to be "explained" (as to why they're there, not how they operate) in a way that in FR, Halruua's flying ships might not (since they're arguably a bit of an S&S cliche even).

 

[Neo]

Well I for one quite liked the look of the photographed flyer, the images looked interesting and alternative.

I'll be checking the world out for sure.

 

[Paka]

I sent some entries into the WOTC Setting Contest. I am eager to see the guy who won.

Maybe we should wait until this thing comes out, when we have some textual evidence, THEN we can have a nasty thread in which people call each other names for having different opinions.

 

[Emiricol]

I sent some entries into the WOTC Setting Contest. I am eager to see the guy who won.

Maybe we should wait until this thing comes out, when we have some textual evidence, THEN we can have a nasty thread in which people call each other names for having different opinions.

Too late.

 

[shadow]

Geez, for the love of God! Everyone is getting so worked up over a setting that they haven't even seen yet! All we've seen are some pictures of the concept art, and nothing else. Perhaps the "train" is confined to a particular advanced magic kingdom. The setting may rock, or it may suck. It's far to early to judge yet!

As far as realism goes, GET A LIFE! It always annoys me how some historical inclined players get so worked up over what would and wouldn't be possible with "medieval technology". D&D never was meant to simulate medieval life. Gary Gygax even wrote it himself in the introduction of the original DMG (or maybe PHB, I forget). Anyway, I could point out hundreds of reasons why Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or Dragonlance aren't "realistic", but why bother? They're meant to be fantasy. This is just as bad as these physics nerds that have to ruin every science fiction movie by pointing out all the physics flaws in it.

The irony of every thing is that I remember when the search was announced last year, everyone was bemoaning the fact that there were already to many "Tolkien-inspired Euro-fantasy settings." Many posters wanted something different and unique. Well, it looks from what I've seen, that the setting will, indeed, be different and unique. Now everyone is griping that the setting is "too different", or it deviates to much from the standard "medieval" setting.

Personally "techno-magic" sounds kind of cool to me, but really it's to early to tell if Eberron will be cool or not. As a fan of the Final Fantasy games, the whole idea of magic and technology sounds neat. I suppose it is all really a matter of taste. Some people like grim, gritty, and tragic fantasy. I do not. I enjoy heroic high fantasy, with larger than life heroes. I've heard praise for Midnight, but after tooking a look at it I didn't like the setting at all. (Although I admit that it was well written.) I though that it was too dark, and had too much of "Alas, evil rules the world. You are a legendary, but ultimately doomed hero. You can't win." Some people love the setting. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PERSONAL TASTE! Is there anything wrong with enjoying high fantasy and magical technology? Then why is everyone complaining!?

 

[rounser]

As far as realism goes, GET A LIFE! It always annoys me how some historical inclined players get so worked up over what would and wouldn't be possible with "medieval technology".

For goodness sake, it's not about realism, it's about what's genre appropriate by default when there's no explicit context to support it which is completely and utterly a different issue. You've leaped into this discussion half-cocked and insultingly, and you don't even have a grasp on the conversation. If you can't understand why magical hover cars aren't appropriate in some people's conception of a D&D world, and why that has nothing whatsoever to do with being "historically inclined" except as it relates to default assumptions about swords & sorcery fantasy technology levels and how they relate to suspension of disbelief, then you need to re-read the posts above.

The Forgotten Realms aren't "realistic" by any stretch of the imagination, but neither does it largely deviate from swords and sorcery territory at all (although there are a few in the cracks, such as the aforementioned tanks). They're not historically accurate either. Time to rethink your argument.

 

[shadow]

For goodness sake, it's not about realism, it's about what's genre appropriate by default when there's no explicit context to support it which is completely and utterly a different issue

In other words?

But who is to say what genre is appropriate for fantasy, and which one isn't. For example, from all the fantasy that I've read (outside D&D based novels), I've never have heard of spell slinging priests. Or at least, not in the same way as D&D. So for me I've always had trouble reconciling the cleric class my assumption of a fantasy world. Everyone's idea of what should constitute "fantasy" is different. Some people's idea of fantasy is based on final fantasy games, or Steven King's Dark Tower series.

I'll admit, Eberron sounds quite different from standard sword and sorcery D&D, but I think this could be a good thing. I'm getting a little sick of standard generic sword and sorcery worlds. Eberron is just going to be an option for players looking for something different than Forgotten Realms.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

I wonder if Planescape, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer were complained about this much when they were first announced. Where you see "default assumptions about swords & sorcery fantasy technology levels and how they relate to suspension of disbelief," I see "more of the same." The truly groundbreaking settings, in my view, are the ones that do something to shake up the status quo.