WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[mythusmage]

Slowly sliding off-topic here, but I've always thought the reason magic won't/can't replace technology in a D&D-eque setting is twofold:

1) it takes special training (and in many worlds, talent) to learn how to cast spells and craft permanent items,

(and possibly the more important one

2) it costs you part of your life force to make a permanent item

What this means is that you can't get mass production of anything magical - each item has to be individually crafted and paied for in life. You can't teach a person part of the process - like, say, how to attach a wheel to an axle - and have them do it, so you basically can't industrialize on a large scale.

With a clever wizard, you could industrialize production of mundane items, although it would be tremendously expensive.

J

1. Have the state sponsor wizard education. Would pay for itself with all the low level dweomercrafters paying tax on their income.

2. A, the item lasts essentially forever. B, you get better.

"Hi Bob. I just made a 'globe of directions to the nearest restaurants' for the city, so I'm off to learn about ogre rules bocce ball."

Now there's an idea, libraries dedicated to serving the needs of wizards looking for some way to replace lost XP.

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: Hey all!

While I post extremely rarely, I do follow the boards whenever I can. Thanks to everyone who has sent positve thoughts my way, and to those who hate already Eberron, perhaps you'll change your mind when you learn more (and perhaps not -- that's certainly your right). I'd love to address specific concerns or questions, but for now I'm caught in the veil of secrecy. A few quick notes:

Rounser: I agree with your general point, and there are clear reasons for the more unusual features of Eberron. It's not just a random mish-mash of things thrown together.

Dave: Congratulations on Sundered Skies and Pinnacle! I look forward to seeing it.

I'm also looking forward to Morningstar. I've done some work for Goodman Games in the past year, and from the little I've heard and the few times I've interacted with Mr. Kennan, I think it's going to be great.

-Keith

Thanks for stopping by, Keith. Hopefully when the product is further along WOTC will allow you to talk more freely, and hopefully you can find the time to give EnWorld a few scoops. As you can see, there is a lot of excitement and interest. I think the setting search is the best thing WOTC has done since the d20 license, and I wish you the best of luck. (And yeah I'm green with envy)

 

[Henry]

Q&A was hampered severely, with Bill Slaviscek saying over and over "We can't reveal that yet." I asked for one example of how the setting is both dark and swashbuckling, but Keith Baker wasn't permitted to answer, even though he said he could provide one.

That was you?! Darn it, I missed you! I was the quy who asked the question about the differences between it and the Realms if both were considered "high-magic."


I overall liked the concept for the setting, but as with the other 5,000 gaming products out there, I doubt I'll get to use it, and hence won't likely buy it. The presentation was not very good at getting the feel across (what with the "In a world of Magic and adventure..." flavor text interspersed in with the concept art).

I got the feel that it was more "D&D meets 1930's Pulp" than "Swashbuckling" as they kept saying. Keith himself said that the world owes a lot to John Carter of Mars more than other influences. But they stressed that one undercurrent of the setting was "magic from a common point of view," rather than "magic defined by high-level wizards duking it out." If the commonality of magic reduces the number of high level NPC's in a setting, I'm all for that.

 

[Henry]

Re: Count me (proudly) amongst the Whiners!

I hope this doesn't come across as sour grapes. I'm sure this is going to be very well done. Having seen some of Morningstar, I know that there were losing entries better than mine, so Mr. Baker gets the benefit of the doubt. I'm P.O.'d at WotC for misrepresenting themselves.

TW, I don't mean to insult, only to add information. If this has already been mentioned and I missed it, I apologize.

At the seminar, Keith revealed that he had submitted eight entries. Of the eight, this one was his "lark" or fun entry - the one he thought would never get made, but he submitted it for the heck of it. He was at first stunned that THIS was the entry they were interested in.

(Keith, correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[drnuncheon]

1. Have the state sponsor wizard education. Would pay for itself with all the low level dweomercrafters paying tax on their income.

Well, if wizardry is an 'anybody can do it'. A lot of fantasy settings posit that a certain 'talent' is necessary as well as the training.

Even if it is a skill that can be taught to anyone, there's a lot of reasons why "the state" might not be able to sponsor wizard education, too: funding, lack of ability to enforce the edict, the wizards being unwilling to share their secrets with 'just anybody'...

2. A, the item lasts essentially forever. B, you get better.

True...but then there's the guys who didn't spend their time making items, and they've gone on and mastered more powerful spells...that's going to sting the pride a bit for many people. (And if that guy is casting spells for hire, he might have just as much money as the crafter.)

J

 

[MarauderX]

Re: Top Ballista?

Was it Top Ballista? Gotta check that one out again, it sounds... awful!

Cheers!

Maggan

That was it, thanks for filling in that fuzzy spot in my memory. From that thing alone I decided D&D + goofy magic technology don't really go unless you keep it very, very subdued.

 

[Gargoyle]

That was you?! Darn it, I missed you! I was the quy who asked the question about the differences between it and the Realms if both were considered "high-magic."


I overall liked the concept for the setting, but as with the other 5,000 gaming products out there, I doubt I'll get to use it, and hence won't likely buy it. The presentation was not very good at getting the feel across (what with the "In a world of Magic and adventure..." flavor text interspersed in with the concept art).

I got the feel that it was more "D&D meets 1930's Pulp" than "Swashbuckling" as they kept saying. Keith himself said that the world owes a lot to John Carter of Mars more than other influences. But they stressed that one undercurrent of the setting was "magic from a common point of view," rather than "magic defined by high-level wizards duking it out." If the commonality of magic reduces the number of high level NPC's in a setting, I'm all for that.

I had planned on hanging around after the Ennies, but we were very tired so Heather and I crashed almost as soon as it was over. It wasn't a very social GenCon for us, unfortunately. For some reason we just had to go to bed early every night and sleep late. (Must be that we were away from our kids, and normally stay up late and wake up early)

On Eberron, I'll probably buy it because I'm such a completist and because I'm sure at the very least it will have ideas and mechanics that I can plunder for my home brew. But running a full-fledged Eberron campaign and buying the whole line of products? There is not enough information for me yet. However, it has caught my interest. The biggest thing I look for in a new campaign world is that it has an alien feel to it. If I were transported there, I would want to know immediately that I am not in the FR, Greyhawk, or planet Earth. That's probably why the only published setting I've really enjoyed running was Dark Sun.

 

[schporto]

Well, if wizardry is an 'anybody can do it'. A lot of fantasy settings posit that a certain 'talent' is necessary as well as the training.

Even if it is a skill that can be taught to anyone, there's a lot of reasons why "the state" might not be able to sponsor wizard education, too: funding, lack of ability to enforce the edict, the wizards being unwilling to share their secrets with 'just anybody'...



True...but then there's the guys who didn't spend their time making items, and they've gone on and mastered more powerful spells...that's going to sting the pride a bit for many people. (And if that guy is casting spells for hire, he might have just as much money as the crafter.)

J

Some fantasy settings do say that anybody can be a wizard. It just takes a long time. Not for the get rich quick side.
As for being miffed that the other guy is doing better. Hell I'm not that bummed that I'm not the world's greatest programmer. I'm not the best at my job. Most people I know aren't the best at their job. (OK one person might be able to argue they are but that's it 1) So yeah you might be jonseing cuz that other wizard can cast something really cool. And the minor league baseball players are strugling to break into the bigs. Shrug. That's life.
Now for industrialization of the process, I think you could. So there's the manufacturers who assembly line the physical object together. Done. Then you have one mage magic the lights. Another magic the flying part. etc. Or maybe combine their powers in a ritualistic way and you have a process where they many would lose less of the experience doing those things.
And just a quibble - I thought making magic items drained experience, not life force. So you suddenly aren't as experienced, but you'll still live as long as you would have. It seemed the way you worded it would end up killing you of old age faster.
-cpd

 

[mythusmage]

Well, if wizardry is an 'anybody can do it'. A lot of fantasy settings posit that a certain 'talent' is necessary as well as the training.

Even if it is a skill that can be taught to anyone, there's a lot of reasons why "the state" might not be able to sponsor wizard education, too: funding, lack of ability to enforce the edict, the wizards being unwilling to share their secrets with 'just anybody'...



True...but then there's the guys who didn't spend their time making items, and they've gone on and mastered more powerful spells...that's going to sting the pride a bit for many people. (And if that guy is casting spells for hire, he might have just as much money as the crafter.)

J

I can see a country not wanting to pay to train prospective wizards; short sightedness, lack of talent, paranoid wizards, etc. But for an empire that wants to keep its citizenry happy and productive, a sizable mage class could be just the thing.

Whereto crafting wizards versus casting wizards, how do you think the latter got all that free time? Made some items for sale, earned enough to hire apprentices to make more (which he then sells through his chain of shops) and earns enough through magic item sales and teaching fees to take long sabbaticals to hunt down old magics and cutting edge dweomercrafting.

(Now there's an idea: Advanced Class, Wizard. Prereq: Ability to use arcane spells, Knowledge (Library Science) 4 ranks.)

 

[drnuncheon]

I can see a country not wanting to pay to train prospective wizards; short sightedness, lack of talent, paranoid wizards, etc. But for an empire that wants to keep its citizenry happy and productive, a sizable mage class could be just the thing.

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't saying it wasn't a good idea, just that it wasn't an inevitability, and it would be easy to justify a setting going either way depending on a variety of factors.

Whereto crafting wizards versus casting wizards, how do you think the latter got all that free time?

Free time? I'm talking about the guy who makes his money as the wizard you go to when you need a spell cast. The one who you go to because your sorcerer doesn't want to waste a slot on identify. The one who the 'NPC spellcasting costs' table in the DMG (well, now in the PHB) is for. That guy.

Even assuming he only casts 1 or 2 spells a day, that's a couple of hundred gold - and he can conceivably cast many, many spells in a day, depending on demand.

J