D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Paul Farquhar]

Which means that my PC has no actual material in the setting to leverage

You can say exactly the same thing about humans. Where’re are they from? Everywhere. What are they like? Just like everyone else.

 

[Hussar]

Aren’t these all details the player normally decides? If I was a player creating a human PC with a background in the Flaming Fist I would expect to have to answer the same questions.

And if they are just some NPC guard, then you need to know different things about them. What it’s their personality? Are they honest or corruptible? Are they perceptive or gullible? Where they live is irrelevant (but most likely in the barracks), since it’s not going to come up when the players interact with them. Again, the same questions needing answers, irrespective of species.

Missing the point.

I'm not talking about my own character. I'm talking about the connections my character has to an NPC. The NPC has zero connections to the setting because the NPC Dragonborn doesn't actually exist in the setting. I have to not only make up my character, I also have to make up the NPC and then make up any connections that NPC has to the setting. Which I can certainly do. Everyone reading this can do that.

But, at no point does any of that actually leverage anything in the setting. I can take that same NPC, file off "Member of the Flaming Fist" and replace it with, "Member of the Bronze Band" and nothing changes. Nothing in that NPC is connected to anything in Forgotten Realms. Again, sure, "make it up" is a solution.

But, again, this has been the point I keep harping on. If I make a human PC with a human connection to a member of the Flaming Fist, I have several canonical choices that I can leverage. There's a dozen or so named Flaming Fist human mercenaries, many of which have (admittedly short) biographies. If I want to be a drow, I can say I have connections to the Bregan D'aerthe and, again, I have dozens of NPC's detailed that I can choose to have connections with, and, again, just like those human Flaming Fist NPC's, they come with built in stories and connections.

But, if I make a Dragonborn or a Goliath PC and I want to have any connections to any existing factions within Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep, I have to create not only my PC, but the NPC's that I have connections to, and then make up the connections that they potentially have connections to. All of which is 100% pulled out of thin air and has nothing to actually do with canon.

What's the point of having thousands of pages of setting canon if I can't make a simple PHB fighter that has connections to the most detailed setting out there?

Look, if I want to make a reified dream of an Aboleth as my species, sure, ok, that's going to be 100% on me. But a PHB character? Heck, don't Dragonborn exist in the Basic set?

That's the advantage of actually building a setting based on the game as it exists.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There's a dozen or so named Flaming Fist human mercenaries, many of which have (admittedly short) biographies.

And tens of thousands of unnamed Flaming Fist mercenaries of many different species*. Assuming your Flaming Fist character is connected to any of those is highly improbable. It's a stereotype that all Americans think all British people are related to King Charlie. Do you actually believe that? News: I have no connection to any British person you are likely to have heard of.

But if you do want to have your backstory improbably connected to some named character, there is no reason they would be the same species. They could be senior officer, a friend, a rival, a lover.


*There are several named non-human Flaming Fist Mercs in BG3. I can think of a gnome and an elf off the top of my head.

 

[Maxperson]

Missing the point.

I'm not talking about my own character. I'm talking about the connections my character has to an NPC. The NPC has zero connections to the setting because the NPC Dragonborn doesn't actually exist in the setting. I have to not only make up my character, I also have to make up the NPC and then make up any connections that NPC has to the setting. Which I can certainly do. Everyone reading this can do that.

But, at no point does any of that actually leverage anything in the setting. I can take that same NPC, file off "Member of the Flaming Fist" and replace it with, "Member of the Bronze Band" and nothing changes. Nothing in that NPC is connected to anything in Forgotten Realms. Again, sure, "make it up" is a solution.

But, again, this has been the point I keep harping on. If I make a human PC with a human connection to a member of the Flaming Fist, I have several canonical choices that I can leverage. There's a dozen or so named Flaming Fist human mercenaries, many of which have (admittedly short) biographies. If I want to be a drow, I can say I have connections to the Bregan D'aerthe and, again, I have dozens of NPC's detailed that I can choose to have connections with, and, again, just like those human Flaming Fist NPC's, they come with built in stories and connections.

It seems like you are arguing that the only way to be connected to the setting is through a Dragonborn NPC.

" I can take that same NPC, file off "Member of the Flaming Fist" and replace it with, "Member of the Bronze Band" and nothing changes."

The reverse is also true. You can take a Dragonborn NPC and replace him with Bob the Human Builder and it also changes nothing.

But, if I make a Dragonborn or a Goliath PC and I want to have any connections to any existing factions within Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep, I have to create not only my PC, but the NPC's that I have connections to, and then make up the connections that they potentially have connections to. All of which is 100% pulled out of thin air and has nothing to actually do with canon.

You don't NEED to create any NPCs at all. I can create a connection to Ulder Ravengard, the Grand Duke of Balder's Gate. He can't be replaced with anyone and change nothing. And he's also the Marshal of the Flaming Fist, which is how my mercenary Dragonborn forged that connection. I can look up other named NPCs of Baldur's Gate to have connections with as well.

Now if you want to ignore the myriad of connections that aren't Dragonborn and only have Dragonborn connections, you currently have to make up an NPC, but to say that you need to make up an NPC to have any connection at all is mistaken.

 

[Hussar]

/snip


*There are several named non-human Flaming Fist Mercs in BG3. I can think of a gnome and an elf off the top of my head.

OMG. That's the point. You're getting there. You're so close.

 

[Hussar]

It seems like you are arguing that the only way to be connected to the setting is through a Dragonborn NPC.

And, whiff, there goes the point off over the horizon again.

It's not the only way. Good grief. Of course not.

But, if I choose to play a human or an elf or a drow or a dwarf or a gnome or any other PHB race, I can connect to an existing, canon NPC in the setting IF I SO CHOOSE. There is no "must" or "only" or "need". It's that the OPTION EXISTS while it DOES NOT EXIST FOR SOME RACES.

In a setting built based on the current PHB, then ALL PLAYERS WOULD HAVE AN OPTION REGARDLESS OF WHAT SPECIES THEY CHOOSE!!!!!! As it stands now, because these settings are so old and based on editions long out of print, NOT ALL PLAYERS HAVE THE SAME OPTIONS.

Is that clear enough? Yes, you can adapt. Yes you can create. Yes you can do all sorts of things. BUT YOU CANNOT LEVERAGE LORE THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

OMG. That's the point. You're getting there. You're so close.

You don’t get the point. Those NPCs are not connected to any other NPCs of the same species, their species doesn’t matter any more than their gender or hair colour. In BG3 the Flaming Fist have random names and species (there may even be Dragonborn, I haven’t interacted with all of them and there are certainly a couple of Dragonborn in the city). The only identity that matters is “is a member of the Flaming Fist”.

The difference between a computer game and the tabletop game itself is visual - you can see what species an NPC is by looking at them, and you can tell their name if you interact with them. These things are not apparent in the tabletop game. If the DM says “a group of Flaming Fist” they aren’t going to tell you the name, gender or species of each of them unless you specifically ask - because it’s not relevant.

 

[mamba]

If you knew the CEO and CFO of a hundred different companies, and they were all white, would you assume that there are non-white CEO's and CFO's? Because that's far closer to what we have for Forgotten Realms. Hundreds and hundreds of named NPC's. And zero (or close to zero) named NPC's who are Dragonborn.

we know dragonborn exist in general though, that none are ‘CEOs’ does not mean that ‘none are working in the companies’, and that is ultimately what you are claiming.

So yeah, your dragonborn character cannot have a connection to an official dragonborn named NPC, but they can have a connection to other dragonborn living nearby and to some of those named NPCs.

Not sure why the connection needs to be to a named dragonborn, guess in that case you have to make one up, it’s not like we have an exhaustive list of every important individual within the realms either

 

[mamba]

If I make a human PC with a human connection to a member of the Flaming Fist, I have several canonical choices that I can leverage. There's a dozen or so named Flaming Fist human mercenaries, many of which have (admittedly short) biographies.

your dragonborn can have a connection to those too, nothing says your dragonborn only knows other dragonborn

 

[Corinnguard]

Why are we just looking at species for a connection of any kind to an NPC when background can also do the very same thing? If your character has the Mercenary background, you could have a connection to a client who hired out your company's services. You could have a connection to a person who brought you into the mercenary company. You could have a connection to one of higher ups in your company. Etc. You could be a member of any species within that background and still have the same connections as anyone else who is a part of it.

Another way to have your character connected to an NPC is to have your DM give you one. At the beginning of my group's adventure in Tyranny of Dragons, my DM had everyone in the group roll a d6 and depending on your roll, you were given a connection to a particular NPC who existed in the Forgotten Realms.

Here's who I got for an NPC connection for my Bugbear Ranger:

Once, long ago, Leosin Erlanthar, a wandering monk, saved your life. Last week, you received a burned note that has dark stains on it. He’s sent urgent word for you to meet him in a small town called Greenest. Looks like it’s time to pay off that debt.

Leosin Erlanther