D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Staffan]

WotC knows DS would help to seel the update psionic handbook.... but what about other classes with any special mechanic? For example the shadowcaster, the (ki) martial adepts(crusader, swordsage and warblade), the vestige-pact binder or the (incarnum soulmelder) totemist shaman. Would you allow psiartificers or alchemist in your DS?

Shadowcaster? Yes. Shadow magic is a thing in Dark Sun, and this is a better way to handle tapping the Black for power than just making them another type of wizard. I would probably add in some stuff about shadow needing light to work, because shadow as distinct from just darkness is a big thing in the lore.

Martial adepts? Heck yeah.

Binders? Nah. They're a bit too eldritch and tied up in the general cosmology. Less planar influence (other than elements and the Black and the Grey) is better.

Incarnum stuff? Maybe. The totemist is probably the most suitable, and I think taking on the aspects of magical beasts is a cool idea that fits pretty well into Dark Sun. The alignment-based ones are a bit more iffy though.

Artificers and alchemists? Nah. Too industrial.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I'd put it a bit differently.

Warforged serve the same sort of purpose in D&D as replicants do in Blade Runner or as the tin man does in Oz. One could even draw a comparison to Pygmalion. They are essentially sympathetic characters, who provide both a general vehicle via their presence in the fiction, as well as a specific vehicle with each particular character, to explore "What does it mean to be human?" and "What does it mean to create beings who are entitled to live independently of their creator?"

Darks Sun, on the other hand, is not only "Howard porn" but treats chattel slavery as a more-or-less "natural" way of humans establishing a viable social structure in a relatively brutal world. As I posted upthread, I think there are probably ways of doing this which can be thoughtful and critical, but it would require an approach to the writing that I don't think is WotC's style.

Ok I think I agree with you but what is "Howard Porn"? my Google Fu and pop culture failed here.

 

[James Gasik]

Ok I think I agree with you but what is "Howard Porn"? my Google Fu and pop culture failed here.

My Guess:

 

[Alzrius]

Ok I think I agree with you but what is "Howard Porn"? my Google Fu and pop culture failed here.

It's a more blasé version of what used to be called "Brundage bait," which was in reference to how the old pulps in which Howard's stories were originally published often had their covers drawn by Margaret Brundage, typically depicting scantily-clad women in scenes with S&M overtones.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Could Athas suffer any event like the Sundering in FR? This could mean a "planar rift", opening new zones to be explored, and allowed possible new elements to be added, for example the psionic ardents, or orders of monks.

 

[James Gasik]

Could Athas suffer any event like the Sundering in FR? This could mean a "planar rift", opening new zones to be explored, and allowed possible new elements to be added, for example the psionic ardents, or orders of monks.

While Athas is traditionally very hard to get to, the Githyanki managed it, and so did the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, so it's not impossible to imagine planar access to being opened up due to some event.

 

[pemerton]

Ok I think I agree with you but what is "Howard Porn"? my Google Fu and pop culture failed here.

I picked up the phrase from someone upthread. The answers you've received cover the visual aspect; I was also thinking of the textual/thematic aspect as well (see eg Vale of the Lost Women).

 

[humble minion]

While Athas is traditionally very hard to get to, the Githyanki managed it, and so did the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, so it's not impossible to imagine planar access to being opened up due to some event.

If WotC want to open a hypothetical future Dark Sun more to the planes, they won't bother with new Sunderings or metaplot events or anything, they'll just retcon it to have always been that way. One thing WotC have made very clear over products like SotDQ, VRGtR etc, is that they only feel obliged to be consistent with canon from prior editions when they feel like it.

 

[James Gasik]

If WotC want to open a hypothetical future Dark Sun more to the planes, they won't bother with new Sunderings or metaplot events or anything, they'll just retcon it to have always been that way. One thing WotC have made very clear over products like SotDQ, VRGtR etc, is that they only feel obliged to be consistent with canon from prior editions when they feel like it.

Yeah, I vaguely recall one of their talking heads saying something along those lines; "old canon is only canon if we say it is" or somesuch. Kind of like Disney's approach to Star Wars lore.

But if they tried, they could find an explanation that doesn't suck. Like back in 4e, when people were up in arms about Dragonborn in their Dark Sun, and I'm like, well, what about the Dray?

 

[Staffan]

Could Athas suffer any event like the Sundering in FR? This could mean a "planar rift", opening new zones to be explored, and allowed possible new elements to be added, for example the psionic ardents, or orders of monks.

It could, but what's the point?

The thing is that it is, well, I won't say impossible but at least very very difficult to recreate Dark Sun in a way Wizards would like. That's because there are multiple requirements that are mutually incompatible.

I've seen a lot of suggestions about removing slavery and other unsavory parts of Dark Sun from the setting. But to many of the setting's fans from way back, those things are an important part of what makes the setting tick. I mean, sure, tweak things a bit (e.g. figure out a way to remove the forced breeding part of the mul), but Athas is not supposed to be a nice place. Tyr having abolished slavery is part of what makes Tyr special, and a threat to the established order. Dark Sun needs to be a Luke Cage-type setting ("This place sucks, but I can change at least some things about it for the better"), not a Wakanda setting ("Everything is great, but we need to defend against outside forces that threaten us").

But on the other hand, slavery is sensitive stuff. I can totally understand why some folks see it as a way to cheapen what happened to their not-so-distant ancestors. And that makes a setting where slavery is a central component a potentially controversial product, even if the subject is treated with sensitivity. And Wizards doesn't exactly have a great track record with sensitive things, so there's a fairly big chance of them effing it up.

These two factors are mutually incompatible. It's like when I was getting my first glasses and wanted a particular pair of rims that I thought looked good. About a week after I ordered them, I was informed that I needed to select another pair of rims, because it was impossible to get the right shape for my prescription with those rims. So the only reasonable option is to not make Dark Sun at all.