D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, it might very well be that I’m the weird one for considering theme the only “essential” element of an RPG setting. I think it’s a perfectly fair assessment that Dark Sun without psionics wouldn’t be Dark Sun, even if I don’t entirely agree.

I would say the "weird fiction" element of Psionics is part of the teeming of the Setting, honestly.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would say the "weird fiction" element of Psionics is part of the teeming of the Setting, honestly.

It’s certainly part of the aesthetics of the setting - it helps define the look and feel. I wouldn’t say it directly relates to the theme, in the literary sense of the word - the pervading idea or core subject.

EDIT: Like, if I were to try to construct a steelman argument for how psionics relates to the theme of Dark Sun, it would be as the more responsible alternative to arcane magic. The “green energy” in the climate change allegory. But there are a couple of problems with that, as first of all preservation magic already serves that role, and second of all the fact that almost everyone in Athas has some degree of psionic ability. It’s not very convincing as the harder but ultimate more righteous path, when everyone has access to it. Unless you’re going for a Captain Planet “we can fix climate change if we all do our own small part!” message, which… I wouldn’t be behind, personally.

 

[Parmandur]

It’s certainly part of the aesthetics of the setting - it helps define the look and feel. I wouldn’t say it directly relates to the theme, in the literary sense of the word - the pervading idea or core subject.

Part of the original theming was turning D&D-isms Topsy turvy: magic is weird and looked at askance, but psionics are normal and accepted.

 

[Charlaquin]

Part of the original teeming was turning D&D-isms Topsy turvy: magic is weird and looked at askance, but psionics are normal and accepted.

I assumed teeming was a typo and what you meant was theming, but maybe that was an incorrect assumption? Because turning D&D-isms topsy-turvy isn’t a theme, at least not the way I’m using the term. It may well be part of the initial concept, but that’s not the same thing as theme (again, in the literary sense of the word).

 

[James Gasik]

Hungary, Europe. To be honest I cannot comprehend most of the issues discussed here. DS is the Ancient World setting for D&D. It portrays the vast societal inequalities, the at-will wars waged on each others. Then it is also evident why it is a point of light setting: without a source of water, people cannot live and those sources of water are tightly controlled. In many sense it would make a more perfect setting to D&D than any else. Adventuring (you go about in a country fully armed and rob tombs) would not really fit any setting that mimics our 15th - 18th century.

Ah, see, here in my country, there's a push by some people to not teach certain subjects to children. I mean, it's nothing new; when I was young, they taught us that the U.S. won the war of 1812. Imagine my surprise when I found out that we won all of one battle, almost a year after a cease fire was signed, and that technically, we're still at war with Great Britain to this very day!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Anyone who uses 'problematic non-ironically is the problem.

Lol. It must be the little people cannibals. They were dark skinned too, weren't they?

Mod Note:

Speaking of problematic…

What- exactly- are you trying to say? If it‘s something you don’t believe you can’t say clearly on ENWorld, perhaps it’s something you shouldn’t be implying.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It’s certainly part of the aesthetics of the setting - it helps define the look and feel. I wouldn’t say it directly relates to the theme, in the literary sense of the word - the pervading idea or core subject.

EDIT: Like, if I were to try to construct a steelman argument for how psionics relates to the theme of Dark Sun, it would be as the more responsible alternative to arcane magic. The “green energy” in the climate change allegory. But there are a couple of problems with that, as first of all preservation magic already serves that role, and second of all the fact that almost everyone in Athas has some degree of psionic ability. It’s not very convincing as the harder but ultimate more righteous path, when everyone has access to it. Unless you’re going for a Captain Planet “we can fix climate change if we all do our own small part!” message, which… I wouldn’t be behind, personally.

I am re-reading the original Dark Sun boxed set (very slowly I should say as I have lots on my plate). And this is actually supported in the setting descriptions:

While I think it is true that preservation magic also can serve this role, that particular description sounds much more in tune with nature than preservation magic (this is more like a 100% renewal energy, whereas preservation strikes me more like reducing your carbon footprint). I don't think the designers were thinking in the terms I just described but I feel like there is a distinction (again reading slowly so I might be missing something)

I haven't seen it in the text yet but I do also think the idea of psionics very much connects to mutation and evolution which I think are present in the setting. In the section on ability scores and races it hints at this a bit (interestingly the language around superiority of the races is something I find more off-putting, though I think for the time it wasn't a big deal, than all the elements we've been debating in the dark sun threads):

I think with Dark Sun you also immediately make this mental leap to mental powers and mutations from the sun's radiation (because it is something that is in a lot of apocalyptic and science fiction media). There is a definite sense that the pollution of the planet they are on is not just affecting things like trees but the people who live on it, in way that even has profound mechanical consequences.

 

[pemerton]

I haven't seen it in the text yet but I do also think the idea of psionics very much connects to mutation and evolution which I think are present in the setting.

<snip>

I think with Dark Sun you also immediately make this mental leap to mental powers and mutations from the sun's radiation (because it is something that is in a lot of apocalyptic and science fiction media). There is a definite sense that the pollution of the planet they are on is not just affecting things like trees but the people who live on it

Agreed - it's part of the sword-and-planet vibe.

 

[CleverNickName]

About a year ago, Jared Rashcher wrote a pretty insightful article about a possible 5E Dark Sun, over on the What Do I Know? blog.

How Do You Solve A Problem Like Dark Sun?

I’ve seen a lot of discussion on what the “other” classic setting will be for D&D 5e, and a lot of that speculation has been either that Dark Sun is a shoe in for this other setting, or that th…

whatdoiknowjr.com

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Now I am thinking about the idea the "accident" that caused the end of the blue age really it was intentional, this means, it was "sabotage", who by? Agents of cult of Tharzidun, the elder elemental eye.

Other idea is the Athaspace was explored and visited, from Athas itself but also from outer space. The borders of the Athaspace were the batlefield between a group of renegade giths and other whose origin is the Vodoni empire. Around the Athaspace there are other wildspaces, with similar cultures, but you can add all possible elements from the rest of D&D multiverse, for example haregons.

And I also the cleasing war really didn't end in the way the sorcerer kings imagine. Really they were abducted and sent to a demiplane, something style dark domain in Ravenloft. Or at least there is a "mirror world" where the genocide and ecological disaster almost didn't start, but the defilers caused a lot of damage, and this let's add the cult of Tharzidun, still with its machinations. The fact is the sorcerer-kings couldn't go to the "mirror domain" but they could send no-defiler agents. Some "mirror domains" were conquered and controlled by "draconic viceroys" and from these grain could be sent to the Athasian Tablelands..... most of time.

* Any other idea? To create a new transitional setting, like Ravenloft, Planescape and Spelljammer, but this about chronomancers. Then we could see "mirror domains" or "time spheres" based in alternate Barovia, Krynn, Toril, Oerth, Cerilia... Here you could reuse your favorite elements.