D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Markh3rd]

Yes. I'm dyslexic. I sometimes get offended if someone implies people who can't spell are stupid. I would not expect someone who is not dyslexic to understand.

I wasn't implying that you couldn't spell or were stupid, I just wanted to clarify if you meant a different word. Irreverent is also a word but I wasn't sure if you intended to use it or irrelevant.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I personally would suggest that WotC solves this whole conundrum by creating open-ended templates for different races and humanoids, providing examples of how they have been depicted in D&D and literary history, but advocating for a "make your own version approach." Different official campaign settings can offer variations, none of which is canon. For instance, in one world hobgoblins can be vaguely Klingon-esque/samurai with an evil bent, in another they can be Germanic barbarians.

There is no way to create something without drawing upon real world inspiration. But creating a race of evil humanoids with vaguely Japanese qualities is not inherently a pejorative jab at Japanese people. If anything, it is often an homage: "Medieval Japan was cool and interesting...let's draw from it to create an evil militaristic race of humanoids." Again, not necessarily a political or racial statement.

Meaning, rather than potentially dilluting the heritage of the game to appease real-world socio-political sensibilities--which are always changing, and will continue to change ("sensitivity readers" arise from the current zeitgeist, and in a couple decades will be replaced by something else)--use this as a creative opportunity to broaden the game's scope, with a renewed emphasis on advocating for customization and individualization. "Make the game your own, and we'll provide some examples for you in our campaign settings and adventures, but ultimately it is your game, and thus you should make the decisions that suit your group and campaign goals."

For me, part of what makes world-building and homebrewing so fun is that I can take the core D&D tropes and improvise off of them. For instance, the "evil elves" in my last active campaign setting were modeled off of Elric of Melnibone: pale-skinned dwellers of the far north, obsessed with sorcery and dark magic. I had a dark-skinned elven sub-race that was inspired by the Ariane of Talislanta: mystics living in mountain-top temples, astral-traveling the cosmos. My halflings lived on barges traveling the rivers and yes, were inspired by Romani stereotypes (gypsies)--but not as a way to negatively characterize Romani people, but because I liked the basic idea of barge-dwelling halfling story-tellers and the Romani were the closest Earth culture to draw from; not "the road goes ever on," but "the river flows ever on." Orcs were formerly human survivors of an ancient apocalypse and were physically mutated by it; their evilness came from being stripped of their former culture and civilization and living for thousands of years in a harsh environment. Etc.

In other words: my world, my versions of D&D tropes--drawn from canon, but adapted to suit my fancy.

Problem raised is that inspiration is only for evil and militarism. Pejorative in following a stereotype. Pejorative in a negative connotation.
Of course people are free to do whatever the hell they want. In their own games.

 

[Xenonnonex]

We play D&D and actually demand change in policy in the real world where it matters instead of worrying about fantastical creatures in a fantasy elf game.

All this objection to change of fictional depiction. There is no way in hell objectors would want real world change.

 

[Mercurius]

Then combine with Chinese warriors. As said. Influenced by cultures. Not only one.
Specifically. Look at Chinese swords. Looks identical.
Now tell me what is wrong with that picture.

Do you find the depiction of frost giants as evil Nordic people to be problematic? And is it problematic to draw from any real-world cultures in creating evil races or cultures? Strahd is clearly drawn from Eastern Europe...is he offensive or problematic to Romanians and Moldavans?

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I don’t think it is. I think due process is an English Law concept and therefore distinct from civil law systems that descend from Roman law.

It's not, really. I don't want to derail this thread (again...), but, while the basic premises of due process may change (and in fact, they change) in different systems, there's not even a way to translate "due process" that does not imply the same concept in countries that use a system based in Roman Law. As I said, I don't know if the Romans invented it, because it's not my field of expertise, but the concept of due process is here. It's not something else serving the same purpose.

 

[Mercurius]

Problem raised is that inspiration is only for evil and militarism. Pejorative in following a stereotype. Pejorative in a negative connotation.
Of course people are free to do whatever the hell they want. In their own games.

But I don't think that's true. There are countless instances of non-evil D&D tropes that draw from non-European white cultures.

 

[Zardnaar]

Do you find the depiction of frost giants as evil Nordic people to be problematic? And is it problematic to draw from any real-world cultures in creating evil races or cultures? Strahd is clearly drawn from Eastern Europe...is he offensive or problematic to Romanians and Moldavans?

Don't forget longbows. Welsh cultural appropriation right there.

Also part Scottish. Same thing for kilts and claymore/longswords. Highland clearances, ethnic cleansings!!!! Sick of Dwarves with Scottish accents.

Satire.

Actually the Scottish accent imbecile Dwarves are annoying in RAS books. Come to think of it.

How about we just blame everything on the English, have a few beers and let NZ run the world. Everyone else is terrible at it.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Do you find the depiction of frost giants as evil Nordic people to be problematic? And is it problematic to draw from any real-world cultures in creating evil races or cultures? Strahd is clearly drawn from Eastern Europe...is he offensive or problematic to Romanians and Moldavans?

If one dimensional cariactures. Goddamn yes. Goddamn change is needed.
Strahd is tragic. And complicated. Three dimensional. Complex. Flawed. Human. If more villains were like him. Great.

You are still completely missing the point. Do not know if deliberate. If only one dimensional that is a goddamn problem.

 

[Sadras]

There is no way to create something without drawing upon real world inspiration. But creating a race of evil humanoids with vaguely Japanese qualities is not inherently a pejorative jab at Japanese people. If anything, it is often an homage: "Medieval Japan was cool and interesting...let's draw from it to create an evil militaristic race of humanoids." Again, not necessarily a political or racial statement.

So much this!
So you have Vistani in D&D and Ravnos in WoD. Absolutely loved both - and all it did was made me research their history to pull more goodness and mystery into the fold. I didn't see them as evil - I saw them as persecuted, marginalised, disenfranchised.
With orcs - just look at the inspiration that WoW drew from or the amazing image of King Thar on his throne on the cover of the Broken Lands Gazetteer. I really like your idea of WotC providing an options book while drawing on the various inspirations from RW and literature.

 

[Xenonnonex]

But I don't think that's true. There are countless instances of non-evil D&D tropes that draw from non-European white cultures.

Specifically in the case of hobgoblins. In this case.
Which is why orcs are changing. Which is why vistani are changing.