Would "elite characters" work?

[Dykstrav]

I've been working on companion characters a lot lately, mostly as a method to patch parties that are small or have a role uncovered. An idea occurred to me, one that I'd actually like to see in play some time.

Elite monsters are (theoretically) supposed to function as two standard monsters in an encounter. Would it be possible to make "elite" characters that could function as two player characters during an encounter? For example, could you make a party of three elite characters that effectively functioned as a six-character party?

Off the top of my head, here's how I think I'd do it rules-wise and the possible impact I foresee:

• Give the character hit points similar to an elite monster: twice their normal hit point total. Monsters beating on the party have fewer character to beat on, so the characters need a HP boost to function as more characters in an encounter designed for more character. Healing surge value does not change, however, making healing surges approximately 1/8 their max hit points. They're already getting a huge enough boost without letting them drag an adventuring day on and on. Perhaps they should get their surges equal to 1/4 their total as normal, or get more surges--I'm not sure how I'd like to handle this, and I'd like to try a few different options in play before deciding on one.

• Choose one encounter power. That encounter power recharges when the character is first bloodied, or perhaps the character should just be able to use it twice per encounter. Characters would need greater access to their powers to keep damage output comparable to having additional characters in the party.

• Characters may make a single basic attack each round as a free action, either ranged or melee, as they see fit. Again, this is a means to up the party's damage output approximate to having another character around.

• Characters gain an action point after every encounter, effectively making it an encounter power.

• When a character reaches their first milestone in a day, they gain an additional use of a single daily power of their choosing. I would like them to have some "big guns" for tough encounters, but at the same time, making dailies flat-out recharge at certain intervals could lead to over-reliance. Perhaps it could work at each milestone (since healing surges are really what spells the end of the adventuring day, not necessarily daily powers). It's another area where I'd like to actually play with the idea and see what happens before settling on something.

Your thoughts?

 

[DragoonLance]

Someone beat you to it:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...913-d-d-4th-edition-gestalt-elite-heroes.html

and yes, it's quite workable with a small party.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Not quite similar if you ask me.

I have some further suggestions/changes:

I would let each character have two initiatives (roll for both).
I would let the character have an extra at-will power
I would let the character have two encounter powers per regular encounter power
I would let the character have two dailies per regular daily power
I would let the character use second wind twice per encounter
I would let a character use up to two action points

(or to sum it up, double the uses of all encounter powers)

Double hp, but healing surge value at 1/8 sounds quite right, but I would double the amount of healing surges.

I would let the character gain an action point after every encounter.

 

[cdrcjsn]

I dunno.

It seems much simpler to just adjust the encounter xp budget for 3 characters than mess with the core numbers.

 

[mkill]

I've played in a 3 player group with standard rules for over a year and it works. There is really no need to change anything. It is possible to play normally with one role missing, as long as you fight smaller groups of monsters.

I assume it's more difficult with 2 players or in a solo campaign. I definitely wouldn't add more hp - monster damage is rather lowish anyway, and even more hp on the player side would end in a boring whackfest with no danger of dying. Combats are long enough as they are.

My suggestions for a 2-player campaign: Pick any two roles of Striker/Defender/Controller. Add a generous supply of healing potions.

High-level heroes will have enough options at their disposal, it's not necessary to add here. However, you can give low-level heroes more options.

- Start with 2 dailies and 2 encounter powers. At 7 and 9th level, you don't gain a new power, but trade one out.

- Add a free skill power and a free trained skill to make out-of-combat play more interesting.

Fight small groups of monsters.

I'd leave everything else as is, otherwise the PCs are drowned in options at mid-paragon and fights take forever because you just can't decide what to do.

 

[DragoonLance]

Perhaps a bonus to initiative, if you roll two you might as well just let them play two characters that are built to work together, IMO. I agree about the AP per encounter. About powers, read a bit more closely:

Choose 2 At-Wills, 1 Encounter and 1 Daily for your Primary Class, repeat that step for your Secondary Class. You should begin play with 4 At-Wills, 2 Encounters and 2 Daily powers.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

just let them play two characters that are built to work together,

I know this wasn't a serious example, but it actually is a very good solution to the problem. Especially at low levels, it's easy to play two or three PCs at the same time in combat.

"Just use a smaller encounter budget" is also a good solution.

 

[cdrcjsn]

DMG2 also introduces the concept of companion creatures.

Basically, a character that you can play in addition to your regular PC. But they they use stat blocks similar to monsters, so they're not as complicated.

 

[Dykstrav]

Someone beat you to it:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...913-d-d-4th-edition-gestalt-elite-heroes.html

and yes, it's quite workable with a small party.

Not quite what I had in mind, DragoonLance, but it's a neat read anyway.

Let me share with you some more of what I had in mind--why I think the concept could be neat and worth trying to work out.

First off, I wouldn't want to make it as complicated as creating gestalt characters. I don't really want to load down characters with more in-play options (I think 4E plays slower because of in-play options already). I want them to just have more access to the things they already have.

Second, I'd like it to be as quick and painless as possible. Ideally, the rules could be used interchangeably as the DM sees fit. The DM could announce at the start of a session if the group is playing by "standard" characters or "elite" characters for that session, based on attendance and the like. The only math they should have to do is doubling their hit points, which should be quick and easy, even to do in your head.

Third, I'd like the system to allow a single "elite" character to be completely interchangeable with standard characters. For small groups, some players like to play two characters--some don't. Say that we have three players. Two of them could play standard characters and a companion character, while the last player could play an elite character. I'd like to have that option available.

Given these caveats, it makes more sense (to me, anyway) to change the way characters access their powers, rather than change the basics of their power selection, feats, class features and the like. Unfortunately, giving an elite character more hit points is the only way I can see to give a single character the staying power of two separate characters. Perhaps giving elite characters more access to their healing surges would also work, but they'd need more healing surges to compensate. I think there is room to experiment.

I've also heard the sentiment echoed of constraining design to compensate for a small party. This is a legitimate approach. It'd certainly make your encounters go by faster since fewer creatures involved means fewer actions going on in a round. This option is unpalatable to me for 4E, however. One of 4E's big features is the design to accommodate encounters with multiple creatures. If you take this feature out, I think that you're removing one of 4E's big selling points.

 

[renau1g]

One thing to maybe think of is a recharging mechanism for powers. For encounter powers you can recharge on say 5,6 on a dice at end of turn and a daily on a 6 at the end of combat. That way you can allow them to possibly use their powers more often. Downside is on encounter long dailies (rages, wizard powers, etc) it could be problematic.