Would like some help evaluating an item

[Greenfield]

The DM in our most recent adventure dumped a good chunk of goodies on us, perhaps a bit too much for the level.

One item was very obviously aimed at my character, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with it. I'd like some opinions on it. For reasons that are a bit drawn out, I'd also like some opinions on the total plusesw and the price.

The weapon is a +2 Cold Iron rapier. In the hands of a Bard it gains the following bonuses:
+ 1 D6 damage (untyped)
+ Charisma modifier to Damage
Weapon Finesse feat (anyone using it gets the feat)
Lycanthrope Bane

The DM is calling that a weapon with an effective bonus total of +6. And while any one of those special add-ons might be a +1 effect, the sum total seems high.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[Nebten]

It looks like a +6 weapon to me
+2 base
+1 for Bane Weapon per DMG
+1 for 1d6 dmg (similar to Flame/Frost/Shock weapon from DMG)

And I could see a +1 modifier given for Cha dmg and another +1 for a feat. I think there is a weapon bonus in MIC that gives Cleave at +1. Honestly, if you are a bard and got this weapon, why are you skeptical?

 

[Celebrim]

The DM in our most res=cent adventure dumped a good chunk of goodies on us, perhaps a bit too much for the level.

One item was very obviously aimed at my character, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with it. I'd like some opinions on it. For reasons that are a bit drawn out, I'd also like some opinions on the total plusesw and the price.

The weapon is a +2 Cold Iron rapier. In the hands of a Bard it gains the following bonuses:
+ 1 D6 damage (untyped)
+ Charisma modifier to Damage
Weapon Finesse feat (anyone using it gets the feat)
Lycanthrope Bane

The DM is calling that a weapon with an effective bonus total of +6. And while any one of those special add-ons might be a +1 effect, the sum total seems high.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Your DM is a devious RB much to my liking, and you should be grateful.

Your DM has struck an interesting balance here. He's given you a powerful and novel weapon well suited to your abilities, but largely avoided a mere christmas tree effect. You're quite right; while the weapon is technically equivalent to at least a +6 weapon, the particular combination of effects is not enormously powerful. The free weapon finesse is marginal, since anyone that could really benefit for this probably planned it into the character. The lycanthrope bane power is only situationally useful; when you can spotlight with the weapon its going to be amazing, but most of the time its a minor note about the weapon.

On the other hand, it does address one critical problem with the high level bard and that's the ability to contribute in terms of consistant damage. If you think about it, this is something like a rapier +4 to hit, +10 to damage, and its very much going to continue to scale with your level. What he's given you is optimization, but optimization on his terms rather than on the player's terms. I could accept a weapon like this into my campaign, only if your DM is anything like me, expect this weapon to stay with you your whole career.

In full disclosure, I just gave out a +2 eager keen cold iron rapier of swiftness.

 

[PureGoldx58]

Seems legit, Although I don't know why everyone typically feels that every weapon enchantment is worth a + enhancement bonus. There ARE things that just cost money and making every weapon a high + number is IMO lazy DMing... but I digress that is just me and I L-O-V-E custom creating items.


Edit: Also that sword is pretty good and I'd play a bard just to use it.

 

[Dandu]

A Feycraft Weapon would allow you to use your Dex mod instead of Str mod. I believe it adds a small amount onto the cost of a regular weapon. IIRC, the weapon damage is also reduced... or that may just be me misremembering.

A Crystal Echoblade from the MiC gives this:

Crystal Echoblade
Price (Item Level)" 4,310 gp (9th)
Body Slot: - (held)
Caster Level: 10th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 20) evocation
Activation: -
Weight: 4 lb.

A crystal echoblade normally functions as a +1 longsword, but is enhanced by your musical ability. If you use your bardic music ability while wielding the weapon, the blade resonates in harmony, dealing additional sonic damage on each attack equal to half your bard level.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Bardic Music
Cost to Create: 2,000 go (plus 310 gp for masterwork longsword), 160 XP, 4 days.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

 

[Empirate]

+6 is a rather low price for this weapon's abilities, but, as others have pointed out, some of the abilities are rather situational.

However, consider the following:
+1d6 untyped is probably a bit better than +1d6 energy damage, so this is better than a straight +1 bonus ability (like flaming, frost etc.).

+Cha damage is very, very good indeed for a Bard. It scales with level, it is subject to temporary buffs, it has synergy with your other most important magic item (Cloak of Charisma +6, obviously). I expect this to deliver around a +7 or so damage boost at mid levels, so it is about twice as good as flaming, frost etc., AND it multiplies on a crit, with a rapier. That right there is an excellent ability which is worth at least a +2 enchantment.

A free feat (if you don't already have it), which is furthermore geared towards the kind of weapon it comes on, is very nice, as well. However, I expect you already have Weapon Finesse, as would anybody wielding a rapier. Benefit is thus marginal.

Lycanthrope Bane is very situational, as are all Bane enchantments unless you campaign is heavily leaning towards that monster type. Still, it is powerful when you actually encounter Lycanthropes. If the DM gave you this weapon, I'd fully expect this to happen sooner rather than later!


All in all, +6 seems in order. You're dealing 2d6 + Str + Cha + 2 damage with each hit, and you use Dex to attack. It also leaves a hand free to cast or play an instrument, and it generates lots of crits. If Lycanthropes come along, you're going to shine brightly - not outshining the Barbarian, maybe, but doing a lot in melee nonetheless. That's a nice weapon well into the mid teen levels!
If you want to enchant it further, you might want to take a look at +gp enchantments first, though, not +bonus enchantments.

 

[kitcik]

I agree with Empirate.

While Bane:Lycan and weapon finesse are maybe only worth like +.7 and +.8 or something, respectively, +Cha to damage and +1d6 untyped are probably +1.5 and +1.1 or something, respetively. Not that there are partial pluses, just rating them against what I see as the "average" +1 power.

So, all in all, it is a decent +6 weapon.

Now, if you NEVER meet a Lycanthrope during the campaign and/or already have the weapon finesse feat, then I could see how this "custom" +6 weapon could be slightly annoying.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, thanks.

My Bard was never designed for melee ability, and doesn't have Weapon Finesse. He has a Strength of 9, and it only got raised from 8 by an accidental encounter.

I didn't bother adding feats to enhance his melee because, well, it was like turbo-charging a moped. You might get a nifty moped out of it, but in the end it's still a moped.

But it bothers me when a DM lays a weapon out, clearly the most powerful weapon in our game, and designs it so that only one PC can take it.

Equally strange is that the weapon didn't have any of those abilities when it was being used against us in melee. (By a Bard, in case anyone asks.) It just reeks of Monte Haul.

The price of the weapon, at +6 total effect, would be 72,000 gp. The character is 12th level, which means that that single item would be more than half of the character's recommended wealth, per the table in the DMG.

The way we divide loot is on a cash-and-carry basis. The loot is appraised and the total value is then cut in half, to reflect resale value. The result is divided by the number of characters in the group, to reflect their fair share.

All items are presumed to be for sale, either in town or to PCs, with PCs having credit equal to their share. We can take it in cash by letting items be sold, we can take it in items, we can add cash from our own reserves to buy more than our share value, presuming the items are available. If two people both want the same item, they bid for it, with the excess being added to the total in the loot pile, and shared out at the end. Healing items, such as wands and potions are considered "party treasure", and not counted in the pile. The person who gets that wand or potion will, likely as not, be using it on someone else, so we don't charge for such things.

So the blade is 72k, minus a small amount for the "Bard Only" restriction.

The next largest item in the pile was about 40k. The next biggest weapon in the pile was a +2 cold iron longsword.

This will, in all likelyhood, make the Bard a front line fighter, one of the best in the party. And that isn't normally a role the Bard is supposed to fill.

 

[Loonook]

The next largest item in the pile was about 40k. The next biggest weapon in the pile was a +2 cold iron longsword.

This will, in all likelyhood, make the Bard a front line fighter, one of the best in the party. And that isn't normally a role the Bard is supposed to fill.

Not going to make any bard a front-liner... They are far too squishy to be front-liners. What is does do is make you useful enough in the case when you need to take up a fighter's mantle to not make you useless in melee with a 9 Strength and no real battle strength.

What is really irritating is that the DM is presenting you with a gift horse and you have asked for seven different dentists to check them molars. The DM wants you to have an item that can be used by yourself OR anyone who can pass a UMD of 20 once/hour it is in use (Emulate Class Feature). So your Rogue can use it or anyone who has invested cross-class or has gained UMD from another class selection would grant the same benefits (at least 75% of the time for the Rogue without any Charisma bumps, though of course Eagle's Splendor could assist on the check AND his damage with the item).

Now what's interesting is that it is a Cold Iron weapon with Lycanthrope Bane. Which seems... odd, since it would seem Silver would be the best take on it. The weapon is at best situational for you as a secondary protection, or for the Rogue to borrow while stabbity-stabbing some skinchangers.

The item, as it stands? Not the best use of a +6 bonus, not the worst. Most of the addenda are situational at best and there are existing cheaper versions of the item. To be honest the item would probably be around a +4-5 tem considering MIC rules and the item above... So we have the Echoblade (let us figure that into the Charisma AND d6 considering the upper limit of 10+ at level 20 being more than the 3.5+modifier unless you're looking at a Charisma above 23 in your current form), cold iron is a cost item, add a feat as low down the totem poll as Weapon finesse? 1500 for feycraft, probably add a bit for it being an 'improved' form of it not lowering the damage die (a whole +1 to damage? Let's say 4k to be generous).

5500 + 4310 (base Echoblade), add an additional +1 from the Echoblade (6k), Bane (12k), going to move it to what is SHOULD be with Alchemical silver... 20GP. If you are looking for the

28k-38k. 27830 to be down to the cent for Silver, 27810 + 2k per 'enchantment' for the cold iron version (ymmv as to how you calculate that benefit) and it could actually be worse than the actual item I crafted because that item can give you your full level boost (right now just slightly lower than your current, but will eclipse your total in 2-4 levels unless you have some crazy Charisma modifiers), unless again you are stabbing the hell out of a lot of lycanthropes.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[kitcik]

{quote=whining rant}
In my campaign, I am a monk.

We divide treasure as follows:
- Items that PCs can use go to those PCs, based on who could use them best. If two people really want an item, they dice it off.
- preference is given to those that have not gotten an item in a while.
- Items that are not beneficial are sold, and total GP is divided equally.

I am now 13th level. The best item that has ever dropped that could help me was a +2 Ring of Protection. I got a +2 Periapt of Wisdom by dicing against the druid, just 'cuz it's practically like I've taken a vow of poverty.

The abjurant champion has a staff of power. The druid has a +4 unholy, flame burst, some other power long sword (+9 equivalent). The Ranger has a +2 holy, bane evil outsider longsword that casts Heal on him as an immediate action if needed (1/day). Etc.

And I have whatever I could buy from time to time using my (equal) share of the gold. Meaning, they have the equivalent of EVERYTHING I have (using their gold), plus their cool drops to boot.
{/rant}

So, enjoy your sword.