Would somebody explain the Deathless to me?

[Knight Otu]

Same for living constructs, I would have made it just a subtype for constructs. Oh well.

Ehm, Living is a subtype, technically available to objects and undead, too, but primarily for constructs.

As for the Deathless - the concept behind them is one that was certainly needed. However, I'm still unsure if creating a type that is fundamentally equal to Undead was really needed. WotC could have easily created a Positive subtype that has the same effects.

 

[grimslade]

Deathless in Eberron

The Deathless in Aerenal are members of the Undying Court. The plane of the Dead Dolurrh is a realm where memories are stripped from the deceased's mind until nothing is left. The elves of Aerenal want to preserve their elders and, therefore, infuse them with positive energy granting them immortality, sparing them the indignity of Dolurrh. The Undying Court is a (un-) living history of the elves spanning back almost to the days of slavery on Xen'drik. Elves can speak with ancestors that would have died generations before.
As for the decomposing flesh, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
I don't think that most denizens of Eberron, except Aerenal Elves, would find the Deathless anything other than abhorrent. It looks like a lich, acts like a lich; it must be a lich. Even Valenar elves are uncomfortable with the Undying Court. The Valenar practice ancestor worship closer to Vodoun or Santeria. Ancestors as spirit guides who may possess a worthy vessel.
So the deathless are creepy but make sense in the settings context.

Grim

 

[Menchi]

The thing is that Deathless aren't just undead. Look at the pictures that are provided in the book - they aren't rotting, decaying beings. They are mummified.

Think of deathless as anti-liches. They are self-aware and seek to do good actions. To the Elves, it isn't an abomination. The deathless are powered by the positive energy of the Light. They see themselves as the evolution of the soul.

They exist to ensure the future of their race, to combat the darkness that threatens Eberron. And to show those upstart dragons in Argonnessen that they're not the only ones who can hang around to plan out schemes over millennia.

The flaw in thinking of them as abominations is that you end up missing out on what makes Eberron different from traditional D&D settings... nothing is as simple as black and white. The Deathless are positive, and by definition are allowed to live on to continue their noble deeds. But because they plan over staggering periods of time, they are capable of commiting seemingly evil acts because they have worked out that in the long term - say, 250 years - that evil act will bring about an even greater good.

It's this kind of realistic ambiguity that makes the whole Eberron setting appeal to me. Deathless ARE undead and they SHOULD be abominations - but they aren't. But they could be...

Conan

 

[Aaron L]

1st Edition mummies were animated by positive energy. I kinda view the deathless that way. The Areanal elves are very Egyptian in thier reverance for the dead, and the deathless are a way to preserve the dead in such a way that they can still aid thier descendants. And remember, no matter how good, bad, or ugly you were n life, you go to Dollurh when you die. I can easily understand wanting to continue existence as a positive energy animated corpse, rather then becoming a shade locked in eternal despair in what is essentially Greek Hades. Given that choice, I would become a deathless too. Probably why religion isn't all that big in Eberron either, why worship something that does absolutely nothing for you?

 

[Zerovoid]

I think the Deathless are cool. Ideally, they would just be normal undead, but the DnD rules are very strict that the Undead are inherintly evil no matter what. If I got to play instead of DM, I would think about playing be an Aerenal elf with the Right of Counsel feat.

And I like how they are still icky. The Church of the Silver Flame hunted all the lycanthropes to extinction, including the Wearbears. In this same vein, there will be some people who hate the undead, and don't buy the elves claim that "Our undead are GOOD, just because they have POSITIVE energy." I think that's really cool and leaves the door open for lots of interesting conflicts.

 

[Gargoyle]

So basically they're an abomination that must be destroyed at all costs.

I can't believe I have such a strong opinion about this, but despite my best efforts, I can't see anything redeeming about them.

Maybe that's because you're not an elf from Eberron.

The way I see it, it is a way to make the elves feel like a completely different race, not just humans with pointy ears. I agree with Zerovoid. Many humans on Eberron probably feel the same way you do, but the elves obviously disagree. I think it's cool.

 

[mythago]

Reminds me of the zombie lawyers in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series.

 

[SpuneDagr]

Coool concepts, yos. I'm getting a better handle on it, I think.

 

[Incenjucar]

I think the Deathless are cool. Ideally, they would just be normal undead, but the DnD rules are very strict that the Undead are inherintly evil no matter what.

Except, of course, for ghosts (any), mummies (usually lawful evil), jahi (usually lawful evil), gravecrawlers (always neutral), deathbringers (usually neutral evil), corpse gatherers (usually neutral), banshee (usually neutral evil), swordwraiths (usually lawful evil), crypt things (alwaus neutral)... and that's not even counting setting-specific undead like curst, archliches, baelnorn, etc etc etc.

But yes. Always evil. No matter what. Yep.

 

[Dark Psion]

How many existing "Undead" might be better described as "Deathless"?

The Arch-Lich and the Baelnorn Elves of Myth Drannor probably should be and there was a Radiant Spirit back in 2e Ravenloft, a ghost of a paladin trapped in Ravenloft.