Would you be satisifed with d20 as your only RPG? [Ties into RyanD's blog entry.]

[Zaruthustran]

I am satisfied with d20 as my only RPG. It handles the Fantasy genre well, and I just don't have the desire or time for any other kind of tabletop.

Also: these days, most of my enjoyment from the RPG hobby is derived from message boards like ENWorld. I spend way, way more time reading story hours, debating rules, and participating in conversations than I do actually rolling dice. Since d20 has, by far, the largest and most active online community, it's the best game for me.

-z

Disclosure: I'm a 30 year old gamer. In grade and high school I played TMNT, CoC, Rifts, Vampire, Star Wars, Paranoia, Deadlands, and a bunch of other systems. Not any more. The player base is too small, and while I may pick up a book now and then just to read through new rules and fiction, I don't have a desire to actually play anything other than d20.

 

[woodelf]

Yes, but I think it's fair to assume that we all know that he's talking about games that are really powered by a d20 engine, but which eschew the d20 license so they can include stuff that the d20 license specifically forbids. Completely seperate systems that also happen to be open content are not really under discussion.

IOW, "D20 System". If you need to distinguish between D20 System games that abide by the D20STL and those that don't, there are several handy terms you could use: "D20 System-logoed", "D20-logoed", "D20STL" (as in shorthand for "D20STL-using"), just to name 3 that come immediately to mind, and are perfectly accurate.

My objection is not that his statement is necessarily impeding communication in this context--though, really, we don't know, since some people in this thread (and others i've participated in) seem to be genuinely under the misapprehension that OGL==D20 System, and are unaware of other OGL game systems. (Or, for that matter, unaware of other ogls.) But i might be misreading them.

The problem is that, in the larger context, similar usage of the terms is impeding communication. We have a couple natural terms--D20 System, OGL--that could be used plainly, but often aren't. After all, why not use "D20 System" to mean "games using the D20 System", and "OGL" to mean "games using the OGL"? instead of using "OGL" to mean "games using the D20 System that don't bear a D20 System logo" and "D20 System" to mean "only those D20 System games that bear a D20 System logo". And, given the ease with which "D20STL" can be used as shorthand for "D20 System game using the D20STL", i don't see any need to narrow the obvious definition of "D20 System" just to mean that exact thing [which already has a name].

Outside of a marketing context, i see no benefit to distinguishing between those D20 System games that bear the logo, and those that do not. It is *not* a measure of sameness, in either mechanics or setting, nor of compatibility--there are D20 System-logoed games that are very different from D&D3[.5]E, and there are non-logoed games that are just about identical mechanically.

Also, if "OGL" is used to mean "D20 System game, released under the WotC OGL, but not using the D20 System logo", what term should i use if i want to discuss the group of games released under the OGL, regardless of system? I'm not going to give in to lousy, imprecise and/or misleading terminology, just because a few people don't know any better, or can't be bothered to use clearer terms.

 

[Desdichado]

The problem is that, in the larger context, similar usage of the terms is impeding communication.

To paraphrase Kip from Napolean Dynamite: "Your mom impedes communication!"

In any case, I don't think the handy terms you offered up are all that handy, personally. With the exception of publishers, I don't think people care about the distinctions between d20 products and OGC products that strongly resemble d20--it's all just d20 in "the vulgar speak of the plebes." The lack of awareness you're talking about, if it even exists, actually helps foster communication actually, rather than impede it.

Also, if "OGL" is used to mean "D20 System game, released under the WotC OGL, but not using the D20 System logo", what term should i use if i want to discuss the group of games released under the OGL, regardless of system? I'm not going to give in to lousy, imprecise and/or misleading terminology, just because a few people don't know any better, or can't be bothered to use clearer terms.

I think you're fighting an uphill battle there. I suspect I speak for the majority when I say that I'm not going to give in to long-winded, pedantically precise terminology when by simply typing "d20" I can get my point across to pretty much everyone involved in the discussion.

 

[Psion]

(Missed the context... nevermind...)

 

[scourger]

...the big question is are you satisifed enough with d20 that you never need to play another RPG again?

I was. I ran core D&D, DragonStar, Omega World, Judge Dredd, Spycraft, Conan, Spellslinger, a pirate-themed D&D with primitive guns, and D&D with mutants & jedi. So, I took the d20 system to just about every genre as a DM. I played in several different D&D games, plus Wheel of Time, Star Wars, Omega World, and Call of Cthulhu d20. I even read most of the d20 Modern SRD. It was fun to run it out, especially with the expansive rules in the core books (including different technoliogy levels) and the books that expanded the system. But the last d20 game I ran just ran out of gas. It just got too hard to prepare and run the published adventures with the complex NPC foes (and it was only about 6th level).

More recently, I've run Savage Worlds and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Savage Worlds, in paticular, is an easier system to run.

This year, I would like to DM about 25%-50% of our weekly group sessions. Of that, I would like about half to be my old D&D 3e game. The rest of the time, I need to do someting else. It might be another, established d20 game but more likely a Savage Worlds game.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Yes, I like the D20 System the best. I do not have any desire to try any other system.

 

[woodelf]

In any case, I don't think the handy terms you offered up are all that handy, personally. With the exception of publishers, I don't think people care about the distinctions between d20 products and OGC products that strongly resemble d20--it's all just d20 in "the vulgar speak of the plebes." The lack of awareness you're talking about, if it even exists, actually helps foster communication actually, rather than impede it.

Um, i may have failed communicate: I'm arguing *against* using "D20 System" (or, "d20", if you insist) to mean only D20 System games that bear the D20 System logo--it is precisely those who attempt to limit the term "D20 System" to exclude D20 System games that fail to bear the logo that i'm arguing aginst. If the usage has changed, and i missed it, hurray! But my experience has been that people use "OGL" to mean "D20 System without a D20 System logo" and "D20 System" to mean "D20 System with a D20 System logo"--except for those who use "D20 System" to encompass both categories, and thus cause confusion.

I think you're fighting an uphill battle there. I suspect I speak for the majority when I say that I'm not going to give in to long-winded, pedantically precise terminology when by simply typing "d20" I can get my point across to pretty much everyone involved in the discussion.

You mean like how some of the people in this thread assumed "D20 System" meant only those games bearing the logo, and others assumed it meant all D20 System-based games? It's exactly that confusion i'm trying to prevent.

 

[Ranger REG]

Um, i may have failed communicate: I'm arguing *against* using "D20 System" (or, "d20", if you insist) to mean only D20 System games that bear the D20 System logo--it is precisely those who attempt to limit the term "D20 System" to exclude D20 System games that fail to bear the logo that i'm arguing aginst. If the usage has changed, and i missed it, hurray! But my experience has been that people use "OGL" to mean "D20 System without a D20 System logo" and "D20 System" to mean "D20 System with a D20 System logo"--except for those who use "D20 System" to encompass both categories, and thus cause confusion.

Well, we don't mean to confuse you. I believe everyone knows that d20 System is WotC version, as opposed to many other d20-based systems like Palladium's Megaversal System.

As for OGL, we can differentiate if you specify what refernence document you use, keep in mind though that SRD-OGL (or OGL/SRD) is going to symbolize WotC's by default.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

This oughta be a poll. I vote no.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

So after all my babbling, the big question is are you satisifed enough with d20 that you never need to play another RPG again?

Yes. D20 can be extended in any number of ways to a wide variety of genres. As Ryan pointed out, d20 is a toolset, not a straight jacket nor does d20=D&D. D&D is simply one application of the d20 core rules.

D&D = d20
d20 =! D&D