Would you be satisifed with d20 as your only RPG? [Ties into RyanD's blog entry.]

[Khairn]

D&D, D20 or OGL ... the answer is hell no.

 

[buzz]

I'm just stating the fact that since most people play D&D or a D20 game, and they're far more interested in just playing than in learning a new game (or finding a whole group to try a new game), D&D--D20 gets an advantage by default.

This gels with my experiences in both my D&D group and my HERO group. In both cases, the players have achieved a level of mastery with the system that allows them to play, and they aren't too interested in going through that process again in order to get back to the point where they can just play.

I've also noticed this in my role as an ENWorld Gameday organizer. Being ENWorld-based, D&D events fill their seats pretty easily, d20 events slightly less so. Other games generally are a harder sell, unless they're games that our regulars tend to play. E.g., Eden's Buffy and Angel RPGs were big with a group of regulars for a while, so events featuring the system were easy to fill.

As to the "Is d20 enough for you?" question... Yes and no.

I'm the main guy in my groups who buys many different game systems. My interest in the hobby extends beyond any particular game; it's roleplaying I love, so I want to see what's out there. To reiterate Ryan's point, I've found that most people I've meet don't care about roleplaying games so much as they care about D&D, HERO, Shadowrun, or whatever specifically. Ergo, I'm usually the odd man out. It's me saying, "Hey, guys, let's try X, Y, or maybe Z." And their answer is usually: "I'd rather just play what we know."

That said, I think d20 is an excellent engine. And, as long as a given game is going to do what d20 does and not really add anything unique to the gaming experience, my general reaction is usually "Why wasn't this just done as a d20 game?" I can think of a couple of post-d20 releases that, IMO, gained nothing by using their own system.

 

[Korgoth]

No way. I play D&D but not D20/OGL. You can have my Expert set when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

The merits or deficiencies of D20/OGL aside, a game where combats take countless hours and nobody can keep track of all the fiddly little feats and powers is not suited to be the only game in town. Lots of people need something faster and less fussy.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I like the idea of a few over-arching systems encompassing most styles of play, but I don't think it's possible to reduce that to a single system unless it's so customizable as to no longer really be a single system any more.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

No way. I play D&D but not D20/OGL. You can have my Expert set when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

The merits or deficiencies of D20/OGL aside, a game where combats take countless hours and nobody can keep track of all the fiddly little feats and powers is not suited to be the only game in town. Lots of people need something faster and less fussy.

OK, how about "would you be satisfied with *D&D as your only system?" This wasn't meant to be an edition wars thread.

 

[Corsair]

No way. I play D&D but not D20/OGL. You can have my Expert set when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

The merits or deficiencies of D20/OGL aside, a game where combats take countless hours and nobody can keep track of all the fiddly little feats and powers is not suited to be the only game in town. Lots of people need something faster and less fussy.

This is pretty much true of any system where the publisher wants to make money. You're going to get new books, with new "fiddly" bits. As for hours of combat, that is generally more of an issue of players 1) not knowing their characters capabilities well enough, and 2) the GM not knowing the monsters' capabilities well enough.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I would miss my GURPS Call of Cthulhu game terribly.

(emphasis mine)

That sounds like great fun. Any details you'd care to share?

 

[Shades of Green]

I like D20 for D&D, but I like other game systems as well - Shadowrun 4e, Classic Traveller and FUDGE.

And, on a more general note, diversity is a good thing. Different playstyles call for different rulesystems, and a diverse array of rulesets allows the players and DMs/GMs pick the system which suits best their game.

 

[woodelf]

Well, we don't mean to confuse you. I believe everyone knows that d20 System is WotC version, as opposed to many other d20-based systems like Palladium's Megaversal System.

Sure, but i'm not talking about that bit of confusion. I'm talking about the fact that some people include Blue Rose and M&MM when they say "D20 System", and some consider those games to be something else.

As for OGL, we can differentiate if you specify what refernence document you use, keep in mind though that SRD-OGL (or OGL/SRD) is going to symbolize WotC's by default.

Hey, if when people were referring to a D20 System game that uses the WotC OGL and does not have a D20 System logo on it, they referred to it as "SRD-OGL", "OGL/SRD", "D20SRD-based", or something similar, that'd mostly solve the problem. Though even the first two are still needlessly imprecise--there're at least three documents that are titled "SRD" and released under the WotC OGL (the D20 System [fantasy] SRD, the D20 System Modern SRD, and the Action! System SRD). It's the tendency to refer to D20 System games as just "OGL" that i object to as needlessly imprecise--needlessly, because there are plenty of obvious shorthand terms that could be used.

 

[woodelf]

This gels with my experiences in both my D&D group and my HERO group. In both cases, the players have achieved a level of mastery with the system that allows them to play, and they aren't too interested in going through that process again in order to get back to the point where they can just play.

What if that mastery/internallization process took, say, one night's play? one hour's? 5min's? There are definitely RPGs that are simple enough to be mastered in an evening, and, at least for some players, those that are simple enough to be mastered in 15min or so. And i don't just mean understood--i mean mastered. Now, i can certainly see the argument that *any* amount of time is greater than zero, which is what it takes to get your current level of mastery with the system you already have mastered. But, at some point i'd think that the time to learn a new system would be equal to or less than the time spent getting ready for individual sessions (leveling up a character, say). More importantly, since we're talking about D20 System, not D&D3.5E, i wouldn't think that a system would have to be all that simple for it to take the same or less effort to master than it does to master, say, M&MM, given a familiarity with, say, D&D3.5E.

For me, the point where i stopped caring about switching systems was when learning a whole new system took less time than prepping an evening's playing for the old system. But that's the GM talking. I'll gladly play most iterations of D20 System in the future, but i doubt i'll again run anything other than Blue Rose or other streamlined versions. [Or, maybe not. I've been off-again, on-again working on cobbling together a high-fantasy D20 System ruleset that starts with Iron Heroes and adds in magic, psionics, a bunch of new classes, alignment, races, enchanted items. Dunno if i'll ever finish it, much less play it, but maybe…]