Would you be satisifed with d20 as your only RPG? [Ties into RyanD's blog entry.]

[Korgoth]

OK, how about "would you be satisfied with *D&D as your only system?" This wasn't meant to be an edition wars thread.

I wasn't trying to start a war... but I would have to ask "which edition?" Because on the one hand D20/OGL can do a bunch of different genres, but I mostly dislike the way it works (except maybe D20 Wheel of Time, which is self-contained, though still a little slow). On the other hand, when I play D&D I want Classic or 1e or even 2e... but then I'd need at least a couple other games so I could play other genres. Like Classic Traveller and something modern (I always wanted to check out Twilight 2K "Mercs" but I've never found a copy).

So I guess "no" whichever way you ask the question.

 

[Cactot]

my biggest problem with the d20 system (or pretty much any level based system) is that real gritty games are nearly impossible to play. Shadowrun and Warhammer Fantasy RP both work far better for anything but high fantasy. I vastly prefer Shadowrun to D20 modern or D20 future, and while d20 is great for high fantasy it seems to me that WHFRP more accurately represents worlds such as those described in the Black Company books or the Song of Fire and Ice (or most non D&D literature for that matter).

I think the key thing for me, is that the order of magnitude of difference in power between an inexperienced character and a vetran is far smaller. A vetran WHFRP character is maybe 3-5 times as powerful as a novice and in shadowrun for non-magic users the difference is even smaller, which in both cases makes strategy and tactics far more important that sheer character power. I know that real world has no place in RPGS, but I LIKE the fact that in WHFRP and Shadowrun a single experienced character can not level an entire town single handedly, yet can go up against extremely potent foes.

My other qualm with D&D is the potential for going from zero to uber-godlike being in a short period of time. If a group of 3 adventurers starting at level one go into a big dungeon and encounter the average 4 encounters of their CR per day they would double (hit lvl 2) their power in 3 days, be triple (hit lvl 3) their original power on day 6, quadruple (hit lvl 4) their original power on day 8. From there out, lvl 5 would come on day 11, lvl 6 on day 14, 7 on day 16, 8th on day 19, 9th on day 21, 10th on day 24, 11th on day 26, 12th on day 29, 13th on day 31, 14th on day 34, 15th on day 37, 16th on day 39, 17th on day 42, 18th on day 44, 19th on day 47, and finally 20th on day 49... well under two months going from a nobody to being one of the most powerful creatures on the planet, all that is required is enough baddies of the appropriate CR.

Not that its an entirely bad thing, as i LOVE progression like this in high fantasy games, in any sort of gritty game it would be unheard of to be able to go from having you and all your friends thrashed by a single ogre to being able to single handedly destroy an mature adult black dragon in less than a month. And yes, i realize that you can slow down leveling, but my point was just that there are plenty of types of games where d20 is not optimal. Even the most "gritty" d20 interpretation still has an advanced character being orders of magnitude power powerful than a moderately experienced character.


wow.... that was a lengthy way to say "nope"

 

[HellHound]

Obviously for me the answer is no. I've spent far too many years running Vampire and Cyberpunk campaigns (and I'm running a new cyberpunk campaign now).

And anyways, I've written my own RPG that isn't d20, and am working on others. So no, I wouldn't be satisfied.

 

[Particle_Man]

As a player, I could live with only d20, but I like some other systems too.

As a DM/GM, I actually prefer to run Castles and Crusades or Savage Worlds to any d20 game system I have encountered.

 

[buzz]

What if that mastery/internallization process took, say, one night's play?

Oh, I own plenty of games like that. The initial sell is still the hard part.

It's hard for me to say whether these types of games would change their minds, as I have yet to get them to try one. I'm thinking I could get my HERO group to try InSpectres, though, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[Barak]

I think I'm exactly who Ryan is talking about.

I've played a crapload of systems. I'll name most (I'd go for all, but I know I'll miss some.).

D&D (all editions), many variants of 3e (Ie Iron Heroes, AU), Traveller (and the T20 version), Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Champions, Toon, oWOD (all main 5), WFRP, Ars Magica, Gurps (a bunch of different ones, too), COC (not the d20 version, though), Chivalry and Sorcery, Alternity, Gamma World (two different editions of said), Rolemaster, HoL (yes, actually -played- it).. And, like I said, I'm forgetting some.

That said, I've -read- other systems. The street fighter game, TMNT, Ghostbusters, that Wild Wild West game, and many mores.

I currently play D&D (and run it), play in a D20 modern game, a Traveller (T20)game, a shadowrun game (3rd edition) and a Gamma World game (I believe 6th edition).

And yet.. And yet if somehow all other non-D20 systems disappeared, and none ever reappeared? I wouldn't care. What I like is role-playing. And while I enjoy certain genres more, and like trying other systems.. I wouldn't care if it was D20 from now on, and wouldn't be overly upset if it was just D&D from now on. I can still roleplay.

 

[Desdichado]

my biggest problem with the d20 system (or pretty much any level based system) is that real gritty games are nearly impossible to play.

Indeed?

(For the uninitiated, I'm a bit notorious for playing extremely low magic grim and gritty games using d20, and have been doing so for years. In fact, it's the only kind I run.)

 

[Psion]

Indeed?

(For the uninitiated, I'm a bit notorious for playing extremely low magic grim and gritty games using d20, and have been doing so for years. In fact, it's the only kind I run.)

Yeah. When I read Cactot's comment I was like, "um, Grim Tales?"

 

[Cactot]

Yeah. When I read Cactot's comment I was like, "um, Grim Tales?"

just about the only d20 ruleset that i have no experience with... mind enlightening me as to how they soften the powercurve and make it more gritty without just making it so your more likely to die? In grim tales is a lvl 20 char still two orders of magnitude stronger than a lvl 1 character? If not, thats awesome, i will have to try and pick up a copy. But i would like to learn more for now.

 

[Psion]

just about the only d20 ruleset that i have no experience with... mind enlightening me as to how they soften the powercurve and make it more gritty without just making it so your more likely to die? In grim tales is a lvl 20 char still two orders of magnitude stronger than a lvl 1 character? If not, thats awesome, i will have to try and pick up a copy. But i would like to learn more for now.

I sense you aren't going to be satisfied, because other than lethality (which is actually adjustable), the main focuses is making magic risky and rare and a very interesting horror and madness metagame rules. While I think the lack of magic goes a long ways in keeping high-end heroes from turning to superheroes, it still uses the standard "13 1/3 moderately difficult encounters per level" formula standard d20 does (albeit it calculates it differently in a way that prevents cheese, and factors in non-combat challenges.)

But AFAIAC, the statistics of a deadlier system should be more than enough to produce a grittier game, and the magic and horror rules are icing.