D&D 4E Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?

[Gorrstagg]

I take a different point of view. When 3e first hit, the field was open enough that it could support (at least for a while) lots and lots of publishers. Looking back to a year ago, we're down to about five. If 4e wasn't happening, and we were just continuing from 3.5, do you think the number of 3PP's would increase or decrease or stay the same?

If 4e wasn't coming, my prediction would have been that we'd be down to Paizo and Goodman games. Green Ronin was only producing a small handful of modules in their Bleeding Edge line. You had the Dragonlance bunch doing some very good quality, but terribly niche material. Who else?

If 3.5 had gone on for two more years, you wouldn't see any 3PP's doing D&D stuff at all.

To answer this.. in 2 years, you would of been looking at a haunted field where we all were waiting for 4th edition to come along, as 3.5 really is part of the 3rd edition cycle, and was nearing the end of it's dominance, as more and more folks were just starting to really get tired of the glut of "New Stuff", but that only recycled the system a little bit or took a mildly different approach.

Ultimately, I was thinking D&D 4E was 2 years too soon. But that's because I kept having more and more fundamental issues with the logic behind 3E/3.5 with no real fundamental unifying math behind it all. Too many things were done that were built upon other predications but each piece added started to fray the weave of suspension of disbelief.
And as you got to the upper level ranges of 12+ you started really having to come up with some significant work as a DM when you crafted your adventures. Each piece taking longer and longer, and requiring significantly more work. And oh my the save or die issues build into that system. So not cool..

They've rebuilt this game literally from the ground up now with 4E. Solid mathematics, magic items that aren't built upon a complete predication of stat enhancements where EVERY single player has to be kitted out relatively similar to each other version. Every single class is built with a purpose and my personal absolute favorite. Two parts, Social Encounters codified and functionally giving the players a hand in adjusting the narrative, and have it fit in with those other fun parts known as encounters that don't take 4 hours to make a handful of bad guys. Now you can go in and pick and choose, fill up the xp quota of the "Area/Encounter(s)" And then easily modify what you need with a lot less hassle. This right here, has so reinvigorated my interest in D&D that it's fully rejuvinated my 25 years of D&D play again.

(We all experience a level of burn out over time, this just came at exactly the right time. And they can for all intents and purposes as I can see, focused on fun, solid math behind things, and ease of play)

As it relates to 3rd party publishers.

I hope they'll get access to a functional GSL. I hope so, because everything I've gathered about 4E will make their jobs considerably easier, and they can focus on the good stuff, knowing once they get a handle on the fundamentals, they can then see the depth and option and provide us with a great suite of complimentary materals, that suits whatever niche they are trying to fill, from adventures to campaign worlds and their support materials. Et. al.

 

[SSquirrel]

I take a different point of view. When 3e first hit, the field was open enough that it could support (at least for a while) lots and lots of publishers. Looking back to a year ago, we're down to about five. If 4e wasn't happening, and we were just continuing from 3.5, do you think the number of 3PP's would increase or decrease or stay the same?

If 4e wasn't coming, my prediction would have been that we'd be down to Paizo and Goodman games. Green Ronin was only producing a small handful of modules in their Bleeding Edge line. You had the Dragonlance bunch doing some very good quality, but terribly niche material. Who else?

If 3.5 had gone on for two more years, you wouldn't see any 3PP's doing D&D stuff at all.

When 3E was released, all these companies were largely untested, heck most of the companies producing d20 material were completely new. Stores bought their product not knowing what quality it was. Lots of that product still clogs shelves b/c it was crap. It was a natural weeding out process we experienced. It wasn't an open field supporting all the publishers, it was simply a brand new area that had not had a chance to develop standards of quality. Every industry experiences something similar when it is just starting out. Lots of fly-by-night companies produce things that don't sell well or produce something great that is marketed poorly.

The reason we're not seeing many new companies show up producing d20 material anymore (besides 4E being around the corner) is that distributors and game stores got burned very badly by crappy product and are much more choosy about what they purchase now. Typically, this appears to mean largely WotC material only.

 

[nerfherder]

I believe that he was more talking about 3rd-party D&D products. Like Tome of Horrors and Rappan Athuk for instance.

Oh, so he pities people who play only core D&D rather than D&D+3rd party D20, but he doesn't pity people who play D&D+3rd party D20 rather than any RPG. Gotcha.

And... they did a d20 Ars Magica? Wow, that's either nothing like d20 or nothing like the original AM.

Heh! Actually, mechanically it probably wouldn't be too difficult to do AM D20 - no harder than D20 Traveller, I guess.

 

[hafrogman]

I don't know if I'll buy it this time, but my decision is not affected by the licenses.

I came in here to say this, but it was already said. I will buy based on how I feel about the game, not the liscencing. I bought 2nd edition, I bought the red box, I bought countless other games along the way before anybody had ever though of the OGL.

 

[frankthedm]

Not going to "cancel" my pre order, but there is a damned good chance I won't run it unless there is a GSL Tome of Horrors.

 

[Umbran]

Most of the RPGs I own and have played or do play are not "open". I don't see a solid argument to avoid 4e on that basis.

"Open" is really pretty new for RPGs - as a business model is is experimental, at best. WotC took a big risk with it in the first place, and I cannot fault them for it if they choose step back from that experiment.

 

[DZeroStar]

I didn't buy much beyond the core books last time, and would be OK with D&D as a closed system. However, I don't think it would make any sense for them to close it after 3/3.5 were open! I know other gamers who by a LOT more books than I do that would certainly be disappointed by that decision, and I think it would negatively impact WotC's bottom line...

Generally, I like to see all the 3rd party modules (moreso than 3rd party rulebooks) since some have very unique adventures. I would hate to see those disappear in 4e!

 

[Woas]

5 years ago? Yes, I could have cared less about third party and OGL. The only D&D I played was what WotC published.

2 years ago? No. I tried out some Arcana Evolved back then and it perked my interest in third party D&D info. I slowly started to get into more and more 3rd party material and used it more that WotC.

Now? No. I'm not sure I even want to buy 4e regardless. I'm too interested in other systems and styles of play. So currently I could care less what the D&D 3rd party (or is it 4th party now? ) material is.

 

[Keldryn]

I would still buy D&D 4e if it were completely closed. No versions of D&D prior to 3e were open -- even though there were a lot of unlicensed supplements out there.

I don't buy a lot of 3rd party supplements. The good ones are fantastic, but finding gems like The Book of the Righteous amongst the mountains of broken, uninspired crap was a lot of work. Not that Wizards of the Coast hasn't produced some broken, uninspired crap under the official D&D banner. Of course, I don't buy a lot of first-party books these days either.

The open license is an overall plus, and is definitely a bonus, but I just don't see it as a vital aspect of the game.

 

[IanB]

Doesn't matter to me much if it is Open or not. I like the rules I've seen, and I want to play D&D. I'm leery of the quality of 3rd party products for the most part anyway, as I've had about a 50/50 success rate on them being any good at all, whereas with WotC I liked just about every book that didn't start with "Races of..." in at least some way.