Would You Buy This Book?

[JustKim]

To name a few off the top of my head, Sorcery & Steam, Iron Kingdoms, AEG's Magic, Magic of Faerun, one of Mongoose's Power Classes books, and many more. It's an awful lot of effort to flip through my entire collection for technomancy systems but I'd estimate a sizeable portion, about one in every ten books, have covered the subject in one way or another.

 

[Crothian]

To name a few off the top of my head, Sorcery & Steam, Iron Kingdoms, AEG's Magic, Magic of Faerun, one of Mongoose's Power Classes books, and many more. It's an awful lot of effort to flip through my entire collection for technomancy systems but I'd estimate a sizeable portion, about one in every ten books, have covered the subject in one way or another.

Well, this is pretty different from all those though by ther sound of it. None of them really define tech in such a way that one needs class levels to improve it like spell power. Those are just fantasy tech books.

 

[Kelleris]

Well, this is pretty different from all those though by ther sound of it. None of them really define tech in such a way that one needs class levels to improve it like spell power. Those are just fantasy tech books.

Hmm, yes, that was my thinking. I'll add a few others that are good, but not what I was looking for, too: the Dragonmech Coglayer and Dave1001's Inventor and Tech Warrior from the WotC boards. I wouldn't be interested in taking a stab at integrating technology as a sort of equipment or as an industry, since there are a number of good to excellent books that do that already. I was interested in making it an analogue of arcane and divine spellcasting, which is what I was going for here.

In fact, EN Publishing is coming out with an equipment/industry-type book soon already. If this weren't a substantially different take I doubt they would have been interested in this at all.

 

[Starglim]

I didn't like the example at all. Steampunk is much more acceptable to me than Barrier Peaks freakish high-tech, especially when it's thoroughly and without explanation mixed with magical effects such as demiplanes and defiling. I'd be interested in any better ideas for game mechanics for a Technologist, though.

 

[JustKim]

On the contrary, all of them do. Iron Kingdoms has several technology-based base classes. I believe Sorcery & Steam does as well. Magic has a technomancy speciality which meshes with the existing magic system, which is of course class level dependant. Magic of Faerun has a PrC dealing with technomancy and a system for building items. I don't have the Power Class book on me but it's all about a class so of course it's class level dependant.

I'm sorry but I feel it has been done. I've never even had an interest in technomancy and here I have many products covering it. Just imagine how full my plate would be if I were actually in the market for a technomancy system.

 

[der_kluge]

Hmm... In what way does "technology as magic" bother you? I'm not saying it is magic, just that it uses a similar type of progression (low-level effects to high-level effects) and is incorporated into a campaign in a way similar to how you would incorporate a new casting type into a game (a la psionics).

I think Rodrigo summed it up nicely. Peanut butter and chocolate don't mix. It seems like it would also suffer from the same problem Shadowrun's Decker and Al-Qadim's Mechanician would suffer from - boring, and relegated towards becoming NPC classes. No one is going to want to sit on their butts waiting for the technologist to create his 8 armed mechanical spider for 3 months. They're going to want to go into the dungeon, kill stuff, and loot the place. These concepts - wizards building fancy mechanical constructs to aid them in battle is neat, but ultimately has no place at the gaming table. As an enemy, perhaps, as a once-in-a-while NPC, perhaps, but as a PC, no way.

 

[Kelleris]

I didn't like the example at all. Steampunk is much more acceptable to me than Barrier Peaks freakish high-tech, especially when it's thoroughly and without explanation mixed with magical effects such as demiplanes and defiling. I'd be interested in any better ideas for game mechanics for a Technologist, though.

This might be better for you, Starglim:

Voltaic Coil
Gadget (greater) [Electricity]
Activation Time: 1 move action
Range Increment: 20 feet or touch; see text
Effect: An electrical charge that can be discharged as an attack
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Activation Cost: 3 points
Weight: 8 lbs.

The perfect weapon for the stingy technologist, a voltaic coil is a beaten metal orb with tightly-wound copper wires inside it. The orb generates a powerful electrical charge when the dynamo it is attached to is stabilized and activated (as a move-equivalent action), which can then be discharged at any time within the next minute as a standard action.

This pulse of electrical energy can be discharged as a ranged touch attack, and deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per two activation levels, up to a maximum of 5d6 points of damage. Alternatively, the technologist may make a melee touch to deliver the energy directly, dealing 1d10 points of electricity damage per two activation levels, up to a maximum of 5d10. When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal or the like). This electricity damage may be lethal or nonlethal at the technologist’s option.

The devices are organized into three categories - there are gadgets, which are very much to the clockwork-and-steam standard, technologies which represent sci-fi level gear (though with a somewhat different flavor), and artifacts like the example one, which are technology that nobody except possibly the Technologist who created it really understands the principles of. Those later levels are the only ones that feature anything quite so out there.

JustKim: I think Crothian meant treating technology in a manner similar to how casting classes treat a spell progression. It may have been done, but I've never seen it done and I have been looking for technology rules for quite a while. With the possible exception of the Gnomish Artificer, I suppose, but that's dull, and horribly weak. I have a pet rant against technology-using classes that basically do nothing but make wands of one kind or another (such as the Advanced Player's Guide Aethermancer, one I haven't seen mentioned). Maybe I'll post it sometime.

Would you like to see an alternate version of the Technologist (again, akin to the Battle Sorcerer) that focuses on steampunk-level gadgets exclusively? I'm fairly sure I can manage something like that in this framework.

der_kluge: To tell the truth, that's something I was worried about too. My solution to that problem is twofold: first, the devices themselves are similar to spell research for a wizard, in that you get one for free whenever you learn a new one, with no gold-piece expenditure or time required. And second, much like Eberron's Artificer, the Technologist gets the equivalent of free virtual gold pieces to spend on devices, coupled with the ability to produce replacements for devices overnight if he needs to using those Craft Points. Much like the Unearthed Arcana system, it's assumed that Technologists are busy people in their downtime, or that they have the backing of a well-equipped organization, or something similar. I have a PC technologist in a PbP game I run for my friends, and she's been through 12 pages of posting in one game day and is still doing fine. I've had similar experiences with PC and NPC Technologists in my home game, and I think I run a fairly fast-paced game. So I think I've got that "just for NPCs with a lot of free time" problem licked.

My decision to make them spellcasters of a different sort was heavily influenced by experiences like the ones you cite. (Though I'm not familiar with the Al-Qadim Mechanician.)

A side note: I know I'm posting a lot in this thread. I don't want to get on anyone's nerves, I'm using you to think through the problems with this proposed project "out loud," as it were. Your comments are quite appreciated. And now I think I'm going to go and let people comment without me hovering over this thread like a snark-vulture.

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

Hmmm, what would a sorcerer do if they *suddenly* started taking this class, hmmm... Could result in quite a mess in epic levels, especially if a spellcaster used the Imperial Null-Space Cannon and started defending it. 2d6 per activation level, hmmm, technologist/sorcerer or technologist/wizard, I found a new gasalt and second plot hook!


EDIT: Can you say good-bye Waterdeep?

 

[Wombat]

Hmm, sounds like the old Techno class from that ancient not-quite-D&D book, The Arduin Grimoire.

Personally, I dislike fantasy settings suddenly sprouting rayguns. I can accept a limited amount of steamtech, but if I want to go techno, I'll pick up a sci fi game instead.

Personal tastes only, you understand. If you do write the book up, I hope it sells well for you.

 

[Kelleris]

Wombat - Oh, of course I can understand that. As I noted, it's an esoteric topic... I just wanted to know how many other people shared my personal quirk. (And really, PDF publishing is the way to deal with quirky material.) Having read many of your posts around the boards, I'd've been quite surprised if this struck your fancy.

Myself, I've always been a bit miffed that technology-based casters never got to fire up any really nasty weapons while the wizards got to toss around meteor swarms. I like my chocolate in my peanut better, you see. I was quite disappointed that Dragonstar, while otherwise a lot of fun, didn't do what I considered natural and make technology a spellcasting-type tradition like arcane magic. Also, it's important to remember that ray guns in this system won't be any more common (and probably much less common) than cones of cold and flame strikes.

Bryon_Soulweaver - Well, the device requires three rounds of full-round activations, so the technologist is really quite busy the whole time. Now a sorcerer bodyguard would be, well, quriky but effective. Sorcerers and wizards are the kings of battlefield control, so a pair like that would be fearsome indeed, with the sorcerer using Evard's black tentacles, prismatic wall, and summoned monsters to keep opponents boxed in until the orbital death ray finishes charging.