Would you let your PC's become undead?

[Redevil621]

If a PC happens to have all his constitution drained by a vampire, and he later turns into a vampire, would you let your PC's play their newer and some might think improved characters?

In recent events, my players and i have been exploring the undead monsters throughout the monstermanual 2. while flipping through that, we kind of realized that some templates were very powerful and could easily change a characters future for good.

I would never let any of my PC's "make" and undead character from 1st level or anything of that stupidity, but who here thinks it would be a fun venture to play a character that has turned into a lich, vampire, or deathknight? There are obveous drawbacks, but it might be rather fun to see what would happen if this were ever played out.

Tell me if u think its a good idea, or just some terrable thing that would ruin a game, after all they are monsters and undead...

If u have succesfully pulled this off in a campain, please tell me how it went, and if it was enjoyable or not. also please tell me of how your PC's managed to become the template.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If you can somehow rationalize it, I'd say sure.

Probably give them an impressive ECL increase and either stop their advancement for a while, or give everyone else levels to compensate...maybe make it like a race they have to take levels in, gradually getting better...

I'd say it'd be a challenge, but if you think it'd be cool, that's all that matters. Try to make sure he doesn't outshine anybody else is all I'd caution.

 

[Xarlen]

No.

Not a vampire, no. PATICULARLY not a vampire.

Considering how they Can't go out in the sunlight, they must flee to a coffin when reduced to 0 points, because killing them via stake is a hard problem with all the other PCs defending them, because Villains have to be stocked up to otherwise do damage to them, because they can Dominate people *at Will*, not to mention create Spawn... No.

Now, if it was a Race, or they yes, started at first level (And had a definet higher level), I could see starting them as some undead. Like a ghoulish race, or some intelligent zombie/skeleton.

 

[Redevil621]

But a vampire definately has its weeknesses too, for example, a high level cleric could just have them explode with an impressive turn check, a mage could simply cast control undead, a fighter could drag them out in the sun....

sure a vampire has its strengths, but the downsides of just being undead is enough to screw almost any char. that is the argument my PC's have, and i would say its a very good one too.

A lich has a clakery, that if destroyed, so is his soul, making it so that he can never be rezd ever... thats kind of scarry too, the lich is not as powerful in the positive side of a vampire, but much better on the weaknesses side, he can go in daylight and everything.. this is what i am more afraid of rather than a vampire PC.

i do like kamikaze midgets idea on the process of maybe gaining all the abilities over time rather than saying they get all of them instantly.

 

[thundershot]

It's a pain in the butt. Seriously. I had a player with a Vampire, and she never got to do ANYthing. The others would want to go out in the day, and she was left out. They kept her in a hooded cage where she sat in bat form while they carried her around (her coffin was destroyed) until nightfall. Sure, going in a dungeon was fine, since there was no sunlight, but it was just... a pain.


Chris

 

[Xarlen]

More to the point, the party is limited to doing *anything* outside in the daylight with this character. That definetly puts a *serious* problem.

What about when the Big bads ambush them, sleeping in a barn in the middle of the day, and start setting fire it it? Or having a mage start blasting through the wall to let the sunlight in?

That's right, they have serious weaknesses. They're extremely POWRFUL, and players can't exactly defend against the way they're killed. Maybe, maybe if it were Epic, but then again, if it were Epic, just open up a Gate to a plane that has sunup, and let the sunlight blaze in the room.

 

[Celebrim]

Not without a very very good reason, and not if I didn't have the greatest respect for the player.

A player becoming undead might make for interesting role play for a while, but ultimately the player would have to be relagated to interesting reoccuring NPC that happened to be played by one of the players when it was appropriate. Undead are just too hard to fit into a game because they have so many limitations on the one hand and so much power on the other.

Please don't be offended but I have to say that I'm not impressed by your reasons for wanting to play undead:

"...templates were very powerful and could easily change a characters future for good"

For good? Change your future for 'good'? I hope you mean 'permanently', because becoming undead is anything but a good thing. I think perhaps you should have said, "...destroys your future and dooms you to an eternally bleak and horrible existance in which your only pleasure comes in ruining other peoples lives the way your was ruined."

And err... yeah, they are powerful. If you take one, your ECL jumps 5 or 10 levels or more (you won't be leveling up any time soon). You will also suddenly be alot more powerful than your compatriots (although they will catch up). But powerful does not necessarily mean the same thing as fun or even interesting.

I mean, I think personally it would be interesting to have a PC turn into something like Lord Soth (if it was well role played and calculated with the understanding that he'd never really get to enjoy the power so he better _like_ losing his character in that fashion), but once the fall took place, the character becomes a whole lot less interesting to me. What was interesting was the struggle. The struggles over. The game is over. Darkness won, and about all you can hope for now is a dramatic rematch in the finals with the party struggling to undo the damage that was done. I'd happily let a PC play out his death scene, maybe with some convuluted plot that involved him being partially redeemed or otherwise laid to rest in peace, but I wouldn't just allow an undead to hang around with a player party like nothing has changed, nor would I have much use for a party of vampires.

Besides, if I had a player determined to become a vampire OOCly and ICly (or a liche for that matter), and say actually succeeded (which I'd find hard to believe because almost certainly NPC vampires would be looking to make tame spawn not full fledged rivals), then almost certainly I'd feel it only right to turn the tables on them and have a powerful party for good (not to mention angry mobs and entire nations and knightly orders) come and do what powerful parties for good generally do. It's not like that would be a change or punishment, that is just the way the world works. It would be no easier being on the side of the bad guys (indeed probably alot harder) than it would be on the side of the good guys (or on nobodies side at all for that matter).

 

[kreynolds]

Not sure. But I let them become dead all the time.

 

[Stalker0]

well this happened to my character. She got ambushed by some vampires and got turned into one. She was a bard, and this helped her stats A LOT. Let's just say that a massive fascinate check is very nice when you want someone to look in your eyes

By the end of the adventure, I had become queen of a unholy army, I had killed 2 of the party, enslaved 2 others, and had become master over an adult brown dragon (let's just say a lot of roleplaying and bluff checks went into that one)

This effectively ended the campaign, but it was teh final adventure anyway. My advice, stay away from undead.

 

[Oracular Vision]

I have a player who is turning into a Drow (elf who has used powerful evil artifact to raise dead, his eyes are now solid black and he generates a fear aura.) This player was told by the party not to use the artifact, but he just couldn't resist, and now he has his next three levels picked out for him as he acquires the Drow template. I have another player who picked up a mindflayer helmet of blasting (I forget the module he got it in), and he became evil by putting it on, and he only allowed one chance for the party to get it off (they couldn't find a powerful enough enchanter at that point). He is 1/5 mindflayer now, and has his next 4 levels selected for him...he could have gotten rid of it, but he wanted to mind blast people (amusingly enough, usually getting one party member).

I wouldn't normally allow getting these templates, but they are based on really bad choices made by the players, and the results. They are on Dark Sun now, so it won't matter much, they will all die soon enough I am sure.