Would you like to see Psionics as core rules?

[LostSoul]

Re: Re: I'd like it

If you already _have_ magic, the psi's schtick becomes sorta irrelevant.

Not if you want a character who's strength comes from an expanded conciousness. It's an Internal manifestation of the supernatural. That's the whole _concept_ of psionics, and I don't see why that doesn't fit with fantasy.

 

[reiella]

I'd like to see Psi as Core, but doubt it'd happen. Far too much work. A majority of the psionic powers wouldn't actually take up space (just add a power line, and "Psi Flavor Name:" and poof 80% of the powers are converted).

Cleaning up some problem areas (fission + psychofeedback is bad combo). I'm currently wondering if they're going to do a rewrite of the PsiHB as well (for the same reasons), that I also doubt however despite how much it could benefit from a rewrite.

 

[Desdichado]

Wishful thinking, unless you're completely willing to ignore the tech level. D&D is about swords and sorcery fantasy, and sure, Dune and Star Wars have their analogues to S&S themes (knife fights and lightsaber fights, Bene Gesserit powers and the Force etc.), but at the end of the day, the futuristic, sci-fi tech level cancels out their claim to be swords & sorcery fantasy.

Fantasy in the broad sense of the term they are, space opera sci fi they are, but swords & sorcery fantasy they are not.

If I recall correctly (and I'm sure I do) nobody claimed they were swords and sorcery, just that they were fantasy. They most certainly are not science fiction, as there is no science behind the fiction.

 

[Desdichado]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Worst Thing About Psionics in DD3E Is Its Lack of Support

Can't speak for anyone else here, but I'd say that explains part of MY irrational hatred of psionics.

I play D&D for the medieval sword & sorcery fantasy feel. Inherent mental powers, as opposed to "arcane" powers, just aren't part of my conception of that genre.

It IS splitting hairs. I want fantasy like Tolkien, and Conan, and Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar -- and I just don't see psionics as part of those worlds.

And, neither do you see slot-like magic that resembles D&D magic. Psionics resembles magic in those books at least as well as D&D magic does.

 

[Destil]

I'd like to see a revised PsiHB myself. But I don't reallt want it 'included' in the core rules, I just want to see it covered.

 

[kenjib]

If I recall correctly (and I'm sure I do) nobody claimed they were swords and sorcery, just that they were fantasy. They most certainly are not science fiction, as there is no science behind the fiction.

Okay. Other than all of the space ships, warp drives, light sabers, laser guns, andriods, clones, still suits, force shields, assassin probes, jump gates, reactor cores, death stars, giant destruction beams, tissue regeneration tanks, hologram projectors, armored battlesuits, walker assault units, laser turrets, and such there's no science at all, yeah.

Hmmm....

I would say they are closer to sword and sorcery than they are to fantasy. I would actually be perfectly fine calling them sword and sorcery science fiction.

There is a difference between a "like" relationship and an "is" relationship. In my opinion yes, they are like fantasy, but no they are not fantasy.

EDIT: If you take a more liberal definition of fantasy, then all science fiction can be considered a subcategory of fantasy. I don't think that definition applies to D&D though.

 

[Gez]

Monte's take on psionics seems interesting. By the way, element descriptors (as well as poison and disease) are a houserule of mine since I long time already.

About D&D, Fantasy & Sci-Fi:

Have you noticed how many core elements of D&D are sci-fi (or rather, science-fantasy) already ? Derros (dero), beholders, mind-flayers and yuan-tis come from pulp litterature. It is also interesting to investigate Blackmoor, that ancestor of D&D settings, that features sci-fi elements as well (the ruins of Blackmoor are remnant of a high-tech civilization destroyed by some disaster).

As I use them, psionics powers are inbetween arcane and divine magic. They are an "I don't know how I did that exactly, but it worked" way of handling magic, made by attuning one's mind to the spirit of the land. You know, that ephemeral thing that gives a personality to a place, that makes some location make you feel uneasy, or in the contrary quiet. That thing that may be perverted by bloody battles, that gives flesh to nightmares, that capture departed spirits and turn the into ghosts, and that influence the mood of faeries... If it don't fit into fantasy, I don't know what will.

 

[Voneth]

NO!

Psionics are definitely unbalanced and kinda broken right now. I don't need another reason for my players to bitch about me not allowing them.

Yes, this comment does beggar the question "Well if you don't let your players use the rules, did YOU play them to find out if they were 'broken?'"

Since I have really gotten back into rpg discussions, I've found out that a lot of people (I am not including Paradoxish in this statement) are "arm chair" game designers. They read something, think about it in only a certain situation, and then label it the best or worst thing since sliced bread without even trying to play it first.

I am going through this right now on the Mutants and Masterminds fourm. A new guy will say that X power is broken, until someone points out that X has no defense for Y, Z and A powers. Then the new guy says that "Well, those powers must be broken too!" Until he is told that powers B,C, and D and counter act Y,Z and A and so on until he gets the clue that the game, when it is reviewed on the whole, is balanced.

It gets the point that I begining to follow a friends advice (he playtest CCGs for a hobby), when someone says something is broken, odds are the guy needs to spend another 10 hours of playing to really understand what he is talking about.

Have you noticed how many core elements of D&D are sci-fi (or rather, science-fantasy) already ?

Lets not forget the pulp authors that inspired certain aspects of DnD (or that classic DnD "moutain" adventure). Authors such as Lovecraft, Moorecock and Jack Vance (who's Dying Earth books not only inspired the "spell slot" system so vaunted by the "let's keep it only Fantasy" crowd here, but was a Science Fantasy setting in itself.)

 

[Archibald Theocliste]

Great Lord! While after 248 votes the poll was respecting a perfect 50/50 ratio I went and broke the whole balance of things!

I am a creature of chaos, this is obvious

 

[Gez]

Archibald, Chaos don't have lasted long. We're now back at 126/126. If I didn't knew the moderators were above this kind of silliness, I would suspect one of toying with the result...