# D&D 5EWould you of preferred this Proficiency Bonus instead of what we got?

#### Slit518

##### Adventurer
The current Proficiency Bonus is 2-6, and coupled with Expertise is 4-12.

However, I am not a fan of the math, so I was thinking, would you folks prefer a 1-5 Proficiency Bonus, leaving Expertise to be a 2-10 bonus? And for a half bonus we could Proficiency Bonus divided by 2 rounded up, so it would still be 1-3?

Thoughts?

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#### Nefermandias

##### Hero
My thoughts:
People just like to tinker with the system for the sake of it. Would you care to explain why you are "not a fan" of the current progression? And how would your houserule make the game better?

#### Slit518

##### Adventurer
My thoughts:
People just like to tinker with the system for the sake of it. Would you care to explain why you are "not a fan" of the current progression? And how would your houserule make the game better?

It is more of a math thing.

For the sake of the example we'll assume a character rolls a 20 and has a +5 bonus in their Stat. Then we will do normal Proficiency result and an Expertise result.

Current Proficiency Bonus:
20 + 5 + 6 = 31
With Expertise:
20 + 5 + 12 = 37

Modified Proficiency Bonus:
20 + 5 + 5 = 30
With Expertise:
20 + 5 + 10 = 35

Maybe it is some OCD I have, but the math is more clean. The +2 at level 1 is nice and all, but the later levels screw up the math. Maybe it was originally intended with 18 being the final Ability Score with a +4 to the modified bonus instead of a +5 because of an Ability Score of 20?

#### billd91

##### Not your screen monkey (he/him)
The question I have is: Does "cleaner" math do a better job than the current math?

#### Slit518

##### Adventurer
The question I have is: Does "cleaner" math do a better job than the current math?
The game was made with the current math in mind, if it was made with the cleaner math in mind I am sure it would be a fairly good job.

#### Superchunk77

##### Adventurer
If anything, I would have preferred the game use the 3d6 bell curve instead of the d20 for the core mechanic. 3d6 emphasizes your ability modifier and proficiency bonus over dumb luck on the roll.

There's nothing worse than making an important Stealth roll with a +8 bonus, only to roll a 2 on the d20. The 3d6 makes rolls around 10 or 11 far more likely, so your modifier makes a bigger difference while still leaving some variation for random events/circumstances.

#### Slit518

##### Adventurer
If anything, I would have preferred the game use the 3d6 bell curve instead of the d20 for the core mechanic. 3d6 emphasizes your ability modifier and proficiency bonus over dumb luck on the roll.

There's nothing worse than making an important Stealth roll with a +8 bonus, only to roll a 2 on the d20. The 3d6 makes rolls around 10 or 11 far more likely, so your modifier makes a bigger difference while still leaving some variation for random events/circumstances.

Which game systems use this 3d6 mechanic? I have been collecting systems as of late.

#### Helpful NPC Thom

##### Adventurer
The current Proficiency Bonus is 2-6, and coupled with Expertise is 4-12.

However, I am not a fan of the math, so I was thinking, would you folks prefer a 1-5 Proficiency Bonus, leaving Expertise to be a 2-10 bonus? And for a half bonus we could Proficiency Bonus divided by 2 rounded up, so it would still be 1-3?

Thoughts?
My preference is that proficiency changes your modifier to a +4 or adds +2 to your total, whichever is more beneficial. Expertise should be changed entirely.

#### Superchunk77

##### Adventurer
Which game systems use this 3d6 mechanic? I have been collecting systems as of late.
Fantasy Age and Dragon Age by Green Ronin use it. As does GURPS I believe.

#### Nefermandias

##### Hero
It is more of a math thing.

For the sake of the example we'll assume a character rolls a 20 and has a +5 bonus in their Stat. Then we will do normal Proficiency result and an Expertise result.

Current Proficiency Bonus:
20 + 5 + 6 = 31
With Expertise:
20 + 5 + 12 = 37

Modified Proficiency Bonus:
20 + 5 + 5 = 30
With Expertise:
20 + 5 + 10 = 35

Maybe it is some OCD I have, but the math is more clean. The +2 at level 1 is nice and all, but the later levels screw up the math. Maybe it was originally intended with 18 being the final Ability Score with a +4 to the modified bonus instead of a +5 because of an Ability Score of 20?
Sorry, I still can't see the problem. You just posted a bunch of numbers but you didn't say anything why the default system is "wrong".

#### Nefermandias

##### Hero
If anything, I would have preferred the game use the 3d6 bell curve instead of the d20 for the core mechanic. 3d6 emphasizes your ability modifier and proficiency bonus over dumb luck on the roll.

There's nothing worse than making an important Stealth roll with a +8 bonus, only to roll a 2 on the d20. The 3d6 makes rolls around 10 or 11 far more likely, so your modifier makes a bigger difference while still leaving some variation for random events/circumstances.
3d6 makes the result so predictable that we might as well get rid of the check and just have the DM decide on the outcome.

#### Amrûnril

##### Adventurer
Bringing the proficiency bonus down to +1 would make skill proficiencies almost irrelevant at low levels. If anything, my preference would for low level characters' skill proficiencies to matter a bit more.

I don't think it matters much for combat proficiency, since characters are generally assumed to be proficient in their attacks, and the math can be adjusted accordingly.

#### LordEntrails

##### Hero
No I don't like your new system. I do not care is a number is odd or even, or if the bonus to a roll is +10 or +15. I think it's an OCD thing on your part

#### Campbell

##### Relaxed Intensity
I would prefer Expertise as a set value instead of doubling proficiency bonus. Maybe +3. I do not like how the gap between trained practitioners and specialists just keeps getting wider and wider as you level.

#### Jaeger

##### That someone better
If anything, I would have preferred the game use the 3d6 bell curve instead of the d20 for the core mechanic. 3d6 emphasizes your ability modifier and proficiency bonus over dumb luck on the roll.

There's nothing worse than making an important Stealth roll with a +8 bonus, only to roll a 2 on the d20. The 3d6 makes rolls around 10 or 11 far more likely, so your modifier makes a bigger difference while still leaving some variation for random events/circumstances.

IMHO The 3d6 bell curve is almost too perfect for RPG’s.

The cutoff points for skills where you will almost always fail a roll, or almost always succeed, are too predictable.

For GURPS a mod is to exchange 3d6 for 2d10.

The flatter pyramid "curve" of 2d10 stretches the probabilities out so PC’s will have a wider range where their skill bonuses are still relevant, but do not tend to deliver "automatic" results.

Members of my group have found that going to 2d10 actually makes for a better play experience in GURPS over time.

Others mileage may vary...

#### delericho

##### Legend
I prefer it as-is. That proposed +1 bonus at the lowest levels is just too low, IMO.

If we were to make a change, I might be inclined to turn the bonus into dice: +2 becomes +1d4, +3 becomes +1d6, etc. And then Expertise becomes +2d4, 2d6, etc.

#### DEFCON 1

##### Legend
Supporter
Worrying about "clean math" when you need your PC at least 17th level and with a +5 in their primary stat for it to actually matter seems to be a major waste of time unless you actually intend on playing there for significant amounts of time. And even then... very few (if any) characters will have ALL their skill proficiencies using that one primary stat at +5, which means any of the other skills that use other ability scores won't have that "clean math" either.

#### Shiroiken

##### Hero
If anything, I would have preferred the game use the 3d6 bell curve instead of the d20 for the core mechanic. 3d6 emphasizes your ability modifier and proficiency bonus over dumb luck on the roll.

There's nothing worse than making an important Stealth roll with a +8 bonus, only to roll a 2 on the d20. The 3d6 makes rolls around 10 or 11 far more likely, so your modifier makes a bigger difference while still leaving some variation for random events/circumstances.
I'm a bigger fan of 1d8+1d12. It's a flatter curve, providing a good range of medium scores, while keeping the extreme ends still uncommon/rare.

#### ART!

##### Legend
I simply cannot let the title of this thread go uncorrected.*

### "Would you have preferred this Proficiency Bonus instead of what we got?"​

* I mean, sure I could have...

#### Slit518

##### Adventurer
I simply cannot let the title of this thread go uncorrected.

### "Would you have preferred this Proficiency Bonus instead of what we got?"​

I mean, sure I could have...
Ah, yes, I see my mistake now.
I know better, I just do it on occasion without even realizing it.

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