Would you play a TTRPG that used Meters instead of Feet?

Would you play a TTRPG that uses Meters instead of Feet for measurement and distance?

  • Yes, and I am from the USA

    Votes: 70 46.7%
  • Yes, and I am from outside of the USA

    Votes: 69 46.0%
  • No, and I am from the USA

    Votes: 8 5.3%
  • No, and I am from outside of the USA

    Votes: 3 2.0%

A meter is basically a yard.
And a yard is a basically disfavored unit of measurement in the systems that have it. Americans use it almost exclusively for dimensions related to athletics, and because it is a decent unit to measure distances run. Even when we use yardsticks we are actually concerned about using them to measure feet.

A meter being yardlike is actually evidence of its poor fit as a dominant unit of measurement given that people in a system with both something about the length of a yard and something about the length of a foot as the primary unit for relatively short lengths have fairly consistently chosen the latter.

You're typing on a computer, a very non-academic, common real-world physical item. The science behind it was uncovered using metric units. The design of the machine was done in metric units.
I don't follow the logic. So I owe it something? By responding to me in English, have you sworn some eternal fealty to the English language?

Or is the argument that computers are only made possible by the metric system? Pretty dubious.

However, it seems odd to me to associate the metric system itself (outside some schmoe on the internet telling you you're inferior*) with arrogance -- it's literally one of the most mundane components of the day-to-day lives of billions of people (who are superior or inferior to anyone else for reasons completely separate from their use of the metric system).
My accusations of arrogance were aimed at the Enlightenment era that birthed the metric system, so not really about the dynamics of internet arguments you've seen. I should have been clearer.

And it's not to say that I hate the Enlightenment, but it was powered to a fair extent by an arrogant belief that everything done before which could not be synchronized with Enlightenment ideas of what made things legitimate (a basis in what fancy thinkers felt was "Reason") was utterly worthless and should probably be abolished, regardless of whether it was working just fine for normal people. The intellectual vibe was very much "shut up peasants, the Intelligentsia knows what's best for you".

And of course this all reached it's apogee in 1793 when some Enlightenment nerds got enough sway over actual government in that phase of the French Revolution to attempt to institute decimal timekeeping, abolish religion, and impose many other radical redesigns of society from the ground up. The Metric system, which had been rolled out a several revolutionary phases earlier was a less extreme case of this same way of thinking.

Of course if anything the fact that metric measurements endured and decimal time was a disastrous experiment is evidence of the prior having some actual quality to justify its staying power. And I think it does. But the usefulness is that the world had reached a level of globalization where having many different countries have different weights and measures was no longer viable, so something had to become an international standard. Metric was new and exciting, and more importantly because of its aggressively anti-traditional Enlightenment theory, was the most non-culturally specific option, even in spite of its heavy French Revolutionary association (and ugly "classical" nomenclature). It was the option countries could adopt while accepting the smallest amount of foreign imperial associations.

And good for the metric system. Where I take issue is that people just seem to accept the arguments of its creators for it being a good system as being valid because it won, whereas it's victory probably had more to do with happenstance, and at its core it is actually less elegant and more cumbersome than it appears.

At the very least the names are a travesty. Our fancy 18th century intellectual metric boosters just had to go greco-roman, and just had to combine it all in a system prioritizing rigid consistency over ease of use, or whether the sounds flowed well. And so even common units get absurd strings of syllables. Try writing a song or poem with metric units sometime... it's not happening, they are awkward, inhuman, and (in an ironic pun) don't conform well to meters. Is the centimeter intrinsically worse than the inch, I think it is a little to small to be as convenient for as many things... but it's certainly debatable. What is not debatable is that it takes 4 times as many syllables to do the same thing as an inch just so that someone, after a lifetime of using it, never forgets that it is one hundredth of a meter.
 

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mamba

Legend
And good for the metric system. Where I take issue is that people just seem to accept the arguments of its creators for it being a good system as being valid because it won, whereas it's victory probably had more to do with happenstance, and at its core it is actually less elegant and more cumbersome than it appears.
I don’t know how cumbersome it appears to you, but to me it is a lot easier than the alternative when it comes to conversions between units.

As long as you stay within one unit, you can measure anything in either just fine, but I’d hate doing Physics with the SI system
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Count me as another person who has heard “klicks” as a major slang substitute for kilometers. Almost every time I see “k” in use, it’s for numbering something, like money or people.

Never heard it used in conversation as a substitute for kilometers, even though I have seen distance or speed signs using them (outside the USA, of course).
 


Aldarc

Legend
Aaaaaand this is how nerds get a reputation for being insufferable and argumentative.

As if there's something "inhumane" about a measurement system that literally works just fine as long as you can count and multiply by tens - aka use your fingers (if you have all of 'em).
Agreed.

and at its core it is actually less elegant and more cumbersome than it appears.
The rest of the world gets along with it swimmingly. This may be your personal hang-up.

Much as @Umbran said earlier, it's really about what system of measurement that you are accustomed to thinking in more than anything else. I've seen many non-Americans come to the United States and get massively tripped up by our imperial units. They find talking about distance or their height in terms of feet and inches (5' 11") to be strange when compared to describing height in terms of meters and centimeters or even just centimeters: e.g., 1.82 meters or 182 centimeters. Noting feet (') and inches (") confuses a lot of people out there, and there are even many Americans and Brits who still get confused about notating them.* Sometimes non-Americans ask me what we Americans do when it comes to measurements that are smaller than an inch. I guess we do fractions of an inch, but sometimes a millimeter is an easier way to express a distance finer than an inch.

* See Stonehedge, where the demons dwell and the banshees wail.

When non-Americans talk about the metric system there is not necessarily any arrogance about it. It's just the system of measurement that they are used to. And honestly - and I say this as an American in Europe - once you get accustomed to it, thinking or talking in metric is no more awkward or intuitive than imperial units. It's really about what you are used to.

However, I will admit that I think many of us are so far removed from the basis of these imperial units that's almost silly to think about. Let's take miles. What everyday use does that come from? An English mile is based on eight furlongs. What the frell is a furlong? Almost no one uses furlongs today. People struggle enough telling you how many feet are in a mile. Asking them about furlongs is even more challenging. But a furlong was apparently the distance that a team of oxen could pull a plough without resting back in Anglo-Saxon days. Is that really the sort of common, lived experiences that people nowadays really have any grasp of when it comes to distance? How far I can go with my ox plough without a rest times eight? This is not to mention other now obscure imperial distances including rods and chains. And this naturally also impacts our sense of speed, which amounts to "I can drive 65 eight-oxen-ploughed-rests per hour on the interstate."

At the very least the names are a travesty. Our fancy 18th century intellectual metric boosters just had to go greco-roman, and just had to combine it all in a system prioritizing rigid consistency over ease of use, or whether the sounds flowed well. And so even common units get absurd strings of syllables. Try writing a song or poem with metric units sometime... it's not happening, they are awkward, inhuman, and (in an ironic pun) don't conform well to meters. Is the centimeter intrinsically worse than the inch, I think it is a little to small to be as convenient for as many things... but it's certainly debatable. What is not debatable is that it takes 4 times as many syllables to do the same thing as an inch just so that someone, after a lifetime of using it, never forgets that it is one hundredth of a meter.

Wu-Tang Clan:
Check the 150 millimeter, heater as it blows holes
Through your f***in' speaker
Makin you weaker creepin inches centimeters
Fifty caliber street sweeper
Shots from Shaolin that go to Masapeaqua

Busta Rhymes:
She 8 centimeters, my lil' man about to fall
Scuffing my Air Forces, running through the hospital hall
Deja Vu, like I been here before

The Mountain Goats:
Lit up your magnificent silhouette
How much better, how much better can my life get?
900 cubic centimeters of raw, whining power, no outstanding warrants for my arrest
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, the pirate's life for me

Just promise me that you won't look up how many songs are out there singing about "9 millimeters." 😜

But yeah, it's clearly not happening. Apart from all the songs and poems outside of the United States that incorporate metric units in their songs and poems...
 

And a yard is a basically disfavored unit of measurement in the systems that have it. Americans use it almost exclusively for dimensions related to athletics, and because it is a decent unit to measure distances run. Even when we use yardsticks we are actually concerned about using them to measure feet.

A meter being yardlike is actually evidence of its poor fit as a dominant unit of measurement given that people in a system with both something about the length of a yard and something about the length of a foot as the primary unit for relatively short lengths have fairly consistently chosen the latter.
Not in the UK. Yards and feet both get used a lot, although distances that need to be measured precisely are usually done in metric units.
 

Edgar Ironpelt

Adventurer
I'll play using rule sets that use the metric system. That doesn't mean I won't prefer to keep feet and pounds in my D&D games.

The Fantasy Trip used metric, and so does my homebrew based on it. There are ways to handwave the use of metric in pseudo-medieval settings. For example: A Medievalized Metric System. Mostly though, I'd expect to see metric in games with science-fiction settings.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I'm from the States, but I'm actually more comfortable using meters over feet for distances, probably because I spent 4 years as an active duty Soldier in the US Army. 10m automatically means something to me. Feet I always have to mentally translate back to meters or yards.
 

Aldarc

Legend
While not strictly metric by any means, I will point out that using base-ten math for fantasy gaming currencies - i.e., 100 coppers = 10 silver = 1 gold - is also pretty ahistorical. Maybe we should also rid ourselves of this sort of fetishing of base-ten math in favor of more historical currency arrays based on weights and fluctuating precious metal purity values and not simple conversion?
 

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