D&D 5E Would you prefer warlord or psion as a new class?

[Sacrosanct]

And to prove it, you commit a little dishonest intellectual revisionism of your own:
When I said that it was best to drop this matter, that did not mean for you to engage in further veiled attacks through hyperbolic statements of your own.

It’s not dishonest, nor veiled attacks, to point out what you said in this thread. I mean, your posts are right there. You were the one to say “Mearls strawman” knowing already it wasn’t a literal statement. And you were the one to continue arguing as if people were making it a literal argument after several times being informed it wasn’t literal, but hyperbole, and you were the one who couldn’t provide a single example of people doing what you accused them of.

Thats not a veiled attack lol. That’s a simple summary of your posts. Everyone can easily go back and read them.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I just want more classes period.

Not too many, mind, so I'll accept Psion and Warlord as shoe-ins if I have to so that the total number of classes doesn't go above fifteen. Wouldn't want to see more than twenty classes total, and that's me being very generous, but until then, gimme.

Other than the novelty of having new toys to play with, I have to admit that I only really want Psion for Eberron and Dark Sun setting stuff. I also don't know much about how the Warlord ticks but I'm open minded. Wouldn't throw a fit if one got in before the other, but I'm hoping for both.

I'm also at a loss for how virulently people are arguing in the thread about this over the nittiest, grittiest of points. Who the flying frick cares about Mearl's "strawman"? Who is so concerned about class features and "subsystems"?

Like, come on people. Is two additional classes to add to the thirteen we already have that tall an order?

(... Knowing WotC's release schedule and playtest process, it actually might be, especially if they already have something planned for 2024).

 

[Aldarc]

I would point out that the Warlord that Mike Mearls created as part of his Happy Hour did feature having actual HP healing, with overhealing over the maximum gained as temporary HP, as a feature.

 

[Hussar]

The paladin has 9 unique class abilities, before you look at the individual oaths.

/snip

Let's examine that shall we?

Divine Sense - Ok, that's pretty much uniquely Paladin. Similar in nature to the Ranger's Primeval Sense feature, but, yeah, it's pretty unique.

Lay on Hands - Monks get this. Although, to be fair, Monks can only heal themselves. Is that enough to make it unique?

Fighting Style - Nope.

Spell Casting - Nope.

Divine Smite - That's unique. No one else can convert spell slots to damage after making an attack roll.

Dvine Health - Monks get this.

Extra Attack - Nope.

Aura of Protection - Unique.

Aura of Courage - Barbarians kinda, sorta get this, but, not at range.

Improved Divine Smite - Unique

Cleansing Touch - Unique.
[/quote]

Not sure where you're getting nine from this. And, frankly, even the stuff that's unique is often replicated by spells. And, none of this is using any mechanics that don't already appear in the game - X uses per rest is a pretty standard mechanic for all classes. While the effect might be different, the mechanic isn't. About the only truly unique mechanic there is Lay on Hands. No one else uses a point pool for anything.

 

[Aldarc]

@Hussar, can't warlocks also get a version of Smite for their pact spells?

 

[Hussar]

It’s not dishonest, nor veiled attacks, to point out what you said in this thread. I mean, your posts are right there. You were the one to say “Mearls strawman” knowing already it wasn’t a literal statement. And you were the one to continue arguing as if people were making it a literal argument after several times being informed it wasn’t literal, but hyperbole, and you were the one who couldn’t provide a single example of people doing what you accused them of.

Thats not a veiled attack lol. That’s a simple summary of your posts. Everyone can easily go back and read them.

Ok, enough with the revisionist history.

HERE, here, is a bloody quote from 2017 of someone threadcrapping with the "shouting your hand" back on meme:

I actually like Dragonborn because at least they dont try and shout your hands back on.

Watch the rest of the thread for the fun and games. Good grief. It was constant for a while there.

 

[Maxperson]

Huh.

Didn't you just tell me that I was wrong for characterizing psion fans as wanting "unique class abilities"?

No.

I'm kinda confused. How is "unique class abilities" not a new subsystem? You want new abilities, that are different from any existing abilities, new spells, that are not only different from existing spells but also probably cast in a different way (spell point system), and no components - which no other caster can do.

Because they aren't a subsystem at all. A subsystem is point buy, spell slots, vancian, etc., and that was barely mentioned. A few people discussed it, but the vast majority of those wanting a Psion class didn't.

 

[Maxperson]

Let's examine that shall we?

Divine Sense - Ok, that's pretty much uniquely Paladin. Similar in nature to the Ranger's Primeval Sense feature, but, yeah, it's pretty unique.

Unique #1

Lay on Hands - Monks get this. Although, to be fair, Monks can only heal themselves. Is that enough to make it unique?

Yes it is. They are different abilities that do different things. Unless you can find another class that has exactly the same ability, it's going to remain unique.

Unique #2

Divine Smite - That's unique. No one else can convert spell slots to damage after making an attack roll.

Unique #3

Dvine Health - Monks get this.

They do not. Monks are immune to both poison and disease, making it different.

Unique #4

Aura of Protection - Unique.

Unique #5

Aura of Courage - Barbarians kinda, sorta get this, but, not at range.

Then they do not get it.

Unique #6

Improved Divine Smite - Unique

#7

Cleansing Touch - Unique.

#8

No other class has oaths, I included that as #9. But it's iffy. So let's drop it to 8.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Ok, enough with the revisionist history.

HERE, here, is a bloody quote from 2017 of someone threadcrapping with the "shouting your hand" back on meme:



Watch the rest of the thread for the fun and games. Good grief. It was constant for a while there.

Revisionist history? In order for something to be revisionist, I’d have had to make an argument that changed what actually happened. What specific argument did I make that that thread proves was different from what actually happened? Because I don’t think that link shows what you think it shows. Especially the response on the next page by Mechaterrasque and Jester. It was clearly used as hyperbole.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Revisionist history? In order for something to be revisionist, I’d have had to make an argument that changed what actually happened. What specific argument did I make that that thread proves was different from what actually happened? Because I don’t think that link shows what you think it shows. Especially the response on the next page by Mechaterrasque and Jester. It was clearly used as hyperbole.