Would you quit a game if....

[Zhaleskra]

Actually it was not silly it was a demon cat and we were 6 level. I was not a wizard but a cleric and that evil cat killed me.

Though I did die at first level as wizard because I had one hit point and got hit by a orc with an axe.

You just critically fumbled your Bluff check. Double talk does not work on me, especially when I can go back to what you said on page 3:

Being killed at first level by a kobold or house cat not nearly as much fun.

 

[Elf Witch]

You just critically fumbled your Bluff check. Double talk does not work on me, especially when I can go back to what you said on page 3:

The house cat part of the quote was more tongue in cheek. I personally have never seen a house cat kill a first level character though I have heard so many people talk about it as a drawback for hit points rolled at first level.

Though kobolds are nasty with their frakking traps we had a first level party wiped out by them. This was in a 3.0 game.

When you mentioned the silly factor I got to thinking about the only time we had cats and it was demon cats that regenerated stronger if you killed them.

 

[Elf Witch]

I'm not an over controlling GM but I do have the opinion that the game is the GMs. He or she is the one that puts the time, blood, sweat, tears and hard earned cash into designing/tweaking the setting, writing the adventures and prepping the game. Players get the enjoyment out of playing. They shouldn't be dictating things which is what I normally see on ENW.

Roleplaying is a group experience but IMO it's the GM who should have the final say of what is and isn't allowed.

In the situation we're discussing here I don't think that player should come along and demand a game where he can't die. That is out of order. Any GM worth their salt is going turn around and say no to that idea.

I am a great believer in DMs having a lot of control over their games. If the DM is not having fun then nobody is really going to have fun.


And the DM should absolutely have the final say on the game.

But a DM is not a god and should not be a tyrant he should be willing to listen to his players. I have seen things here on EnWorld where I thought the DM was being a jerk. Being a DM does not mean getting carte blanche to be a jerk.

And I don't think it is wrong for a player to talk to his DM saying he really does not enjoy having his character die.

I would rather have a player be upfront and honest with me then surprise me later on.

 

[Leif]

Isn't that sort of the case though? I'm sure not many DMs are going to run a game that they don't enjoy running. So if there is no game, there is no fun.

Yes, indeed. Ideally, I think the DM/GM will concoct a world/campaign concept/adventure that (s)he thinks will be fun. Then (s)he develops it, fleshes it out and prepares it. Then, possibly the most important task (s)he will face -- (s)he must SELL the concept to the players, in the process convincing them to invest their own energy and creativity into the game, thereby exerting a part ownership over the game, so that it becomes a shared product of DM and players. Then, everyone who participates contributes and invests in the game, and those investments can appreciate in value, resulting in fun for all.

I, personally, have never found ENworld to be "DM-centric" or even, necessarily, "DM-friendly" in some threads...and I've been more on the DM side of things more than the player for a loooooonnnnngggg time (going on 20 years. Other than PbP's which I've only just discovered since coming to this site -last year? Two years ago? No, not yet- and I must say LOVING it! Thank you Leif and RangerWickett [for] letting me be a PLAYER again).
--Steel Dragons

You're very welcome, [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION]. And thank you for your kind words. And also for mentioning my DMing in the same sentence as RangerWickett's, who holds near-legendary status on ENWorld. I'm also having great fun DMing for 'Raggs' and 'Shiyana,' and you have rapidly proven yourself to be one of the best, most dedicated players on all of ENWorld. I hope that our shared AD&D games continue for a LONNNNG time to come! I also hope that you are willing and able to join my Pathfinder game, Whirtlestaff's Wizard's Academy, as soon as you feel comfortable doing so, what with having to digest the 'new' ruleset and everything.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I have known plenty of players who hate having low stats and if they can't roll new ones will do ever thing in their power to get their PC killed so they can try again.

I have known players who whine so badly about it that it just easier to let them roll over.

Oh me too. I left those kinds of players behind in middle school.

 

[Water Bob]

It kind of drives me crazy that people make all these assumptions when they did not hear the conversation and they only have one side of it.

Wasn't that you in the other thread making all sorts of assumptions about one of my players who would lie to his wife about roleplaying?

Oh me too. I left those kinds of players behind in middle school.

I've met those players, some pushing 50 years old.

 

[Elf Witch]

Wasn't that you in the other thread making all sorts of assumptions about one of my players who would lie to his wife about roleplaying?







I've met those players, some pushing 50 years old.

Oh give me a break it is not the same thing and you know it.

You said you have players who lie to their wives about gaming. They lie every week. My opinion is that I don't like lairs and that it is pretty low to lie to your spouse about a hobby.

This is no where near the same thing as taking sides in a gaming issue where one person comes on and posts this happened in my game and this is what was said.

In your case here we don't know the tone of voice used. Was the player threatening you that if you killed his character he would act all pissy and leave or was he simply saying look I don't want to play if my character dies.

Your other players are according to you liars no mistake about that. And as I posted in that thread there is really no excuse in my book over outright lying to your spouse on a regular basis about a hobby. No matter how you choose to sugar coat those players are liars and most people have issues with liars.

But people are judging this guy as being a baby or mentally ill that is assuming quite a bit.

 

[Elf Witch]

Oh me too. I left those kinds of players behind in middle school.

Like I said I have yet to meet a perfect player if you have well enjoy them because they are rare.

The person I was thinking about who hate getting a low stat character is for the most part an excellent player. He is considerate of the DM and other players. He always brings food for everyone and will go out of his way to give rides to players with car trouble.

He does he really good characters and except for character creation he is a joy to play with.

Like I said no one is perfect in my case I have to watch myself because I can be a spotlight hog. I can get caught up in my character and the enjoyment of the game that I sometimes forget that other players would like a chance to be in the spotlight too.

 

[Water Bob]

Oh give me a break it is not the same thing and you know it.

I don't really want to get back into it, but it is the same thing in that you made plenty of assumptions when all you had to go on was a post or two from me describing how those two guys would not tell their wives, even lie to them, about roleplaying.

You don't know them. You don't know their situations. All you know is that I've told you that they refuse to admit to their wives that they roleplay.

Yet, you have plenty of opinions that you posited as fact about their actions up to and including the states of their marriages!

Ma'am, I think you just flubbed a second Bluff check...

It kind of drives me crazy that people make all these assumptions when they did not hear the conversation and they only have one side of it.

In your case here we don't know the tone of voice used. Was the player threatening you that if you killed his character he would act all pissy and leave or was he simply saying look I don't want to play if my character dies.

Interesting that you didn't say something to the same effect when you were making sweeping arguments about the state of their marriages.

But people are judging this guy as being a baby or mentally ill that is assuming quite a bit.

Psstt. By the way....this guy we're talking about in this thread...the one that lies to his wife about playing RPGs?

It's the same guy.

 

[Water Bob]

Like I said I have yet to meet a perfect player if you have well enjoy them because they are rare.

It's really just recently that I've started to have problems with players. Back in the day, there were zero to few arguments. Everyone got along. The DMs word was LAW. Games ran very smoothly. And, we all had a blast.

I can think of few players in the past that were disruptive or disrepectful.

In the 90's, I ran this seven year D6 Star Wars campaign that was one of the best games I've ever run, from story-wise, to player-wise, to just pure fun. Nobody in that game argued. If they disagreed with some ruling, I would listen, sometimes persuaded to change my ruling and sometimes not. If I decided against the player, they accepted it, and we moved on. I had six core players in that game who played the main parts for the entire campaign, and I had two others who came in, gamed for a while, then left (which is easy to do in a game like Star Wars, going from planet to planet and such). The six core players made every game session, and to this day, that campaign stands in my mind as an example of how great a campaign can truly be.

It even ended on a "downer" note for, at the end, Darth Vader captured the lot of them. We ended the campaign on a cliffhanger, not unlike The Empire Strikes Back.

It just seemed appropriate for the game we had run, and the players all agreed that the ending was both surprising and appropriate.

So, yeah, great groups and great games can and do happen.