Would you quit a game if....

[prosfilaes]

But, I recognize that the risk of death is a necessary factor of drama in RPGs. Games where PCs are overpowered and invincible are just plain boring.

I don't agree at all. I can't say I've ever played them, but I don't see why the risk of death is necessary. In Nobilis, what's more dramatic; if you fail, your character dies, or, if you fail, rock and roll will be erased from the world as if it never existed? Buddy Holly, Elvis, KISS, Meat Loaf, and Metallica being erased from existence as musical entities? That's dramatic.

In D&D, I can very much see a game where characters can't die short of openly suicidal acts. If you fall before your enemies, you will awake a captive. If you jump off a cliff to escape them, you'll awake being tended by peasants. But they can still fail; the village they were charged to protect has been put to the flames, the barbarian horde they were supposed to warn the kingdom of is now besieging the castle.

 

[haakon1]

I don't care if there is 40 years in game history that is just stupid logic. Using that logic it would be wrong for a player to approach the DM and say I have an idea for a lawful neutral paladin of St Cuthbert can we work something out. Well no because 40 years of gaming history say otherwise. How dare you disrespect your elders on this. Do you realize how that sounds? How dare WOTC disrespect their elders by changing a game they didn't invent?

Let's not start an edition war thread, but I completely agree with the "stupid logic" strawman you're trying to demolish.

The heart of my grognard anger at 4e is precisely, "How dare WOTC disrespect their elders by changing a game they didn't invent?" There's a lot of specific ways I loath 4e, but that's the core issue -- it's the same name on a quite different game.

As for the request for a lawful neutral paladin of St. Cuthbert, I'd say, "Absolutely not. Reread the rules -- paladins are LG. And in my campaign, St. Cuthbert is LG, just like he was in the original Greyhawk campaign that my campaign grew out of."

Playing a game by its actual rules may not be a tradition in D&D anymore, but it's sure a tradition in sports. The Designated Hitter annoys me (so I think National League is superior). Aluminum bats in college baseball are an anathema. Heck, it even annoys me that people want to use fiberglass boats in crew -- the sport is about wooden boats and wooden oars, people.

By your logic, you'd probably want to put TV's and music in a English pub!

 

[blargney the second]

Damn those changey changers! Changing stuff all the time.

 

[Elf Witch]

Let's not start an edition war thread, but I completely agree with the "stupid logic" strawman you're trying to demolish.

The heart of my grognard anger at 4e is precisely, "How dare WOTC disrespect their elders by changing a game they didn't invent?" There's a lot of specific ways I loath 4e, but that's the core issue -- it's the same name on a quite different game.

As for the request for a lawful neutral paladin of St. Cuthbert, I'd say, "Absolutely not. Reread the rules -- paladins are LG. And in my campaign, St. Cuthbert is LG, just like he was in the original Greyhawk campaign that my campaign grew out of."

Playing a game by its actual rules may not be a tradition in D&D anymore, but it's sure a tradition in sports. The Designated Hitter annoys me (so I think National League is superior). Aluminum bats in college baseball are an anathema. Heck, it even annoys me that people want to use fiberglass boats in crew -- the sport is about wooden boats and wooden oars, people.

By your logic, you'd probably want to put TV's and music in a English pub!

I am not a fan of 4E. But I think you got my point and that was the game is not the same as it was 40 years ago it has constantly undergone tweaks . I don't agree with all the tweaks.

I had forgotten he was LG back in the old days. Back in the old days we played a lot of Forgotten Realms so I am not as familiar with how the gods were aligned in Greyhawk. I am so used to him now being LN.

I am not a sports fan so I will have to take your word for it. Though I am a board game fan and we often play with tweaked rules.

I am in the camp that paladins should be LG and that other churches can have holy champions patterned after the paladin class but they should not be called paladins.

But maybe a better example would have been a lawful good rogue. I had a player who wanted his rogue to be a spy and scout for the crown he envisioned his character as very loyal, following a code and being about protecting the greater good and he saw his character as lawful good. I waived away the chaotic restriction for that concept.

I have only ever been in one English Pub and I don't think they had music. Since I don't drink I don't tend to go to pubs and bars very often so I don't have an opinion. But I take wanting music or TV is a bad thing?

 

[scourger]

I can understand being invested in a character, but I still wouldn't quit just because my character died.

It's never just because my character died. There are usually a lot of other factors: betrayal, disappointment, miscommunication, bitterness, etc.; and then there's the stuff that happens in game.

 

[haakon1]

But maybe a better example would have been a lawful good rogue. I had a player who wanted his rogue to be a spy and scout for the crown he envisioned his character as very loyal, following a code and being about protecting the greater good and he saw his character as lawful good. I waived away the chaotic restriction for that concept.

This one I have no problem with. And neither does 3.5e. It's not fundamental to the nature of what a Rogue is, IMHO, unlike Paladins being LG. Monks being L and Druids needing to have at least some N in their alignment is less of a 'key element of the role', but I'd still rather follow the rules there.

I have only ever been in one English Pub and I don't think they had music. Since I don't drink I don't tend to go to pubs and bars very often so I don't have an opinion. But I take wanting music or TV is a bad thing?

TV is a very bad thing for a pub -- makes it just another bar. It could be marginally acceptable if is if it's showing football (soccer or rugby) or if it's an Irish pub showing Gaelic sport.

Live music is fine, especially in an Irish pub doing Irish music. Loud generic recording musak is not -- again, makes it just a bar.

It's also not acceptable to drink mass market American beer like bud or Coors in a pub . . . Sam Adams and Stella Artois are barely OK, but real ale, microbrews, or anything imported from the UK or Ireland (mass market or not) would be preferred.

That's my opinion, anyhow.

And I really think Designated Hitters are lame and oh so cheesy.

 

[Water Bob]

If you fall before your enemies, you will awake a captive. If you jump off a cliff to escape them, you'll awake being tended by peasants. But they can still fail; the village they were charged to protect has been put to the flames, the barbarian horde they were supposed to warn the kingdom of is now besieging the castle.

What about when you've got 4 HP left and the undead creature rolls a critical on you, knocking you down to -12?

Not dead yet?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And I really think Designated Hitters are lame and oh so cheesy.

What about Designated Hitlers?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Designated Double-post.

 

[S'mon]

By your logic, you'd probably want to put TV's and music in a English pub!

I have bad news for you, mate...