Would you Swap 3.5e for Exalted?

[malladin]

I want my 3.5 so no. That said given how much 4th ed has marketed itself as 'superior' to 3.5 its ironic to see WoTC staff saying WW doing it is insulting. Good offer and made me laugh.

 

[pawsplay]

How can you possibly have a problem with that? Thats asinine. At that point in time, the product will physically belong to them, legally acquired.

And so what? What if some gazillionaire bought the Mona Lisa and used it for rolling papers? There are other principles guiding my life than what someone is permitted to do under the law.

 

[Stone Dog]

At the release of 3e, WotC shredded, literally, warehouses full of unsold 2e books; PHBs, MCs, Planescape stuff.

The WotC retail store I worked at also had to destroy dozens of other books by other companies when it shut down. I wanted a stack of GURPS books, but they had to be torn apart and sent back for destruction.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Right. Because nobody's ever said this about D&D 3.5 before. Telling them the game they were playing just wasn't working out right and that they should upgrade to a newer, better game would be incredibly insulting!

Cheers,
Cam

I don't have a problem with comparative advertising. It is a common practice that we have even used ourselves. I like Coke over Pepsi, maybe Exalted is better. What I said about the promotion was this:

If I felt we needed to employ such a measure I would certainly consider the idea of a sampling program to give books to players but I would not ask they sacrifice something they own to receive the sample.

I think the idea of sampling is very good and the graduation idea with certificate is clever. They are positioning the product as different and better, that's good branding, even pointing out points of differentiation to D&D or any other system is fine in my book. The product looks good, has it's fans, has won awards, it should stand on those merits alone.

I resent the notion that players need to sacrifice a personal possession to take advantage . The fact that they are shredding a product I work on is irrelevant to me. It could be a stuffed toy that gets it's head ripped off and I would still find that distasteful.

On another note, I don't quite get the "I'll point out the Irony of this". Yes WoTC is making a 4th edition, Exalted is on it's 2nd, etc. Pretty much every RPG in it's life has upgraded to a new edition , it's the nature of the game, and of course every publisher thinks the new edition is better than the last.

This has nothing to do with the issue I had. I just say if your going to sample a product don't ask for a customer to make some personal sacrifice.

 

[SavageRobby]

And so what? What if some gazillionaire bought the Mona Lisa and used it for rolling papers? There are other principles guiding my life than what someone is permitted to do under the law.

Hyperbole much?

The Mona Lisa is a singular work of art. The PHB is printed en mass. Certainly you can draw a distinction between the two.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I want my 3.5 so no. That said given how much 4th ed has marketed itself as 'superior' to 3.5 its ironic to see WoTC staff saying WW doing it is insulting. Good offer and made me laugh.

Go back and read my post:

If I felt we needed to employ such a measure I would certainly consider the idea of a sampling program to give books to players but I would not ask they sacrifice something they own to receive the sample.

I think the idea of sampling is very good and the graduation idea with certificate is clever. They are positioning the product as different and better, that's good branding, even pointing out points of differentiation to D&D or any other system is fine in my book. The product looks good, has it's fans, has won awards, it should stand on those merits alone.

I resent the notion that players need to sacrifice a personal possession to take advantage . The fact that they are shredding a product I work on is irrelevant to me. It could be a stuffed toy that gets it's head ripped off and I would still find that distasteful.

I not insulted in the least. I just wouldn't offer a sample in this way

 

[Ruined]

ON NOES!!

I don't have a problem with this promotion. Yes, they'll be destroying books, but come on, they'll be recycling them.


Now if only they'd take my 1e Exalted books instead so I can upgrade...

 

[SavageRobby]

On another note, I don't quite get the "I'll point out the Irony of this". Yes WoTC is making a 4th edition, Exalted is on it's 2nd, etc. Pretty much every RPG in it's life has upgraded to a new edition , it's the nature of the game, and of course every publisher thinks the new edition is better than the last.

Scott, the irony is that they (WW) are basically saying "your current game sucks, try this new one instead". Many folks (me included) feel like a lot of the 4e marketing is saying basically the same thing "3x sucks, try 4x instead". In effect, they're using the same ploy as you folks, only upping the stakes a bit with the swap. (Which, as the little guy, they need to do to get the attention. As you've rightly pointed out - you don't need to do that, even if you were so inclined.)

As far as the "sacrificing" part goes, I'd guess you're one of the last folks here who needs a primer on perceived vs. actual value. They're just making sure that anyone that gets what amounts to a freebie on their part is actually going to attach at least some value to it. Of course, how many folks who get real utility from the PHB are actually going to trade it? For those that do, I don't see it as much of a sacrifice.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Destroying books in the book trade should not be compared to a Fahrenheit 451 style of censorship. It is a fact of the business. Like every publishers, WotC destroys product from time to time. In the magazine business it is common to pulp 50% of the production of every printed issue. We do not shred that much product but the fact is we do destroy books.

It personally makes me sick every time I sign a destruction order. Not because I feel like Guy Montag but because it means I didn't do my job well enough because A) we released a product that was largely panned by customers and/or B) did a poor job at forecasting the print run. Either way it is money wasted. We give away a lot of that product for charitable and marketing reasons but in the end we can't give it all away and so we recycle it.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Scott, the irony is that they (WW) are basically saying "your current game sucks, try this new one instead". Many folks (me included) feel like a lot of the 4e marketing is saying basically the same thing "3x sucks, try 4x instead". In effect, they're using the same ploy as you folks, only upping the stakes a bit with the swap. (Which, as the little guy, they need to do to get the attention. As you've rightly pointed out - you don't need to do that, even if you were so inclined.)

Show me a publisher who has ever upgraded a RPG game system and not touted it has superior to the previous and I'll show you a publisher who is out of business.

4e is better than 3.5. 3.0. 2nd, AD&D, Basic D&D, OD&D, Chainmail ... there I said it. Are the previous editions terrible? No! But the game evolves in fact it must evolve if the business of publishing it is to remain viable.

3.5 is a very good system. I enjoyed playing it, but now that I have played 4e, I won't likely go back. We have never said 3.5 sucks, as we have not said any other edition of D&D sucks but we certainly have said it is better. I think the distinction between "better" and "sucks" is huge.

This is the 2nd ed of Exalted we're talking about here too.

As far as the "sacrificing" part goes, I'd guess you're one of the last folks here who needs a primer on perceived vs. actual value. They're just making sure that anyone that gets what amounts to a freebie on their part is actually going to attach at least some value to it. Of course, how many folks who get real utility from the PHB are actually going to trade it? For those that do, I don't see it as much of a sacrifice.

I'll concede this point. They are not holding a gun to anyone's head on this. The people that take advantage of the promo have likely made the determination that the PHB no longer holds value to them and thus is better traded in for something else that may. have more value.

If it were me I would do it differently and just give away the book but ultimately it is their brand and company and they can do what ever they like. I am just one guy with an opinion.