WoW and 4e - where's the beef?

[amysrevenge]

I don't see any link either, beyond formalizing the roles as has been suggested above.

If you had an agenda, you could force the appearance of a link (cool-down timers == encounter powers, etc.) but that's pretty disingenuous to my mind.

 

[Leatherhead]

If 4E looked and read like a videogame manual, it would be 15 pages long (5 pages for each language), be printed in black and white, and wouldn't explain a damn thing.

They only do that to sell the guidebooks, which people just look up online anyway.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

If 4E looked and read like a videogame manual, it would be 15 pages long (5 pages for each language), be printed in black and white, and wouldn't explain a damn thing.

Well I did say to me. I think it was the color coating and all the little icones for ranged and melle and such looked like something ya would see in a booklet with an xbox game

 

[TwinBahamut]

Well I did say to me. I think it was the color coating and all the little icones for ranged and melle and such looked like something ya would see in a booklet with an xbox game

I don't see those as videogame inspirations...

I think it far more likely that they got the idea for that kind of formatting from Magic the Gathering, which uses the same kind of color-coding, special symbols, and highly specific and often technical language. After all, both games have the same kinds of problems, and the same solutions can work for both.

Of course, I will admit that various videogames do the exact same thing, but I wouldn't say it is something you would really see in the game manuals... Regardless, videogames tend to be a lot more sloppy about the way they provide that kind of information to the players, simply because the player doesn't need to know the information perfectly in order for the game to function. So I will say it resembles Magic the Gathering more than any videogame I am familiar with.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Well never have played magic so I did not have that info, I did and do however play video games and have seen the formatting in a few. So thats where my mind linked the look to

 

[resistor]

I don't see those as videogame inspirations...

Maybe not modern videogames, but a lot of older games, particularly strategy ones, had manuals like this. I distinctly remember my Civilization 2 manual, which had the entire tech tree laid out in a format that look extremely similar to 4e's power layout.

Not necessarily a criticism, but that Civ2 manual is definitely what I think of whenever I see 4e's power layout.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

ya know civ 2 did come to mind. There was another very similar but I can not recall the name

 

[EroGaki]

I have played WoW and a bit of 4E, and I can see a number of similarities between the two. I'm not saying that they are the same, mind you, but some aspects of 4e make me think of WoW:

1. The traditional roles are now officially referred as such. Sure, people have been calling fighters "tanks" for ages now, but only in 4E are they defined as "Defenders." Defender sounds a lot like tank to me. Granted, it really doesn't change much in the way the class functions; fighter go and kill things with sharp metal sticks, now and always. But the inclusion of Title carries with it a certain WoWism, if such a word exists.

2. Many of the class powers carry with them a WoW-like mechanic: Cool down times. Perhaps it was not intentional on the part of Wizards, but it is there. Encounter powers can only be used once per encounter, and are replenished after 5 minutes of rest, thus giving these abilities a 5 minute cool down. Many powers in WoW are similar, being useful only in a single fight (unless you are in a BG, or something really long).

3. Magic Items are very close to those in WoW in a number of ways. First off, any character can potentially craft magic items by learning the Ritual Caster feat; in WoW, you can pick up any two professions, regardless of class. Some of these professions are parallel to those in 4E: Alchemists make potions, enchanters can enchant varies items, etc.
In addition, there is the ability to disenchant a magic item into its component parts, producing a substance called Residuum. Using Residuum, you can, along with the proper ritual, you can make new magic items. With the exception of the Artificer in 3.5 Eberron, this has never happened in D&D (if it has, correct me if I'm wrong ). This is the biggest parallel to WoW in my mind; enchanters in WoW can disenchant magic items and make other items out of the shards and dust.

Now these are the things that stuck out immediatly in my mind. I don't play 4E anymore, so I may have missed some of them. I am not saying that 4E is Pnp WoW, I am just commenting on some of the similarities I, as a WoW, have noticed. Your opinion may vary, of course. But this might help explain why many people see a parallel betwen the two games.

 

[Rechan]

But the inclusion of Title carries with it a certain WoWism, if such a word exists.

Putting a label something makes it WoW like?

2. Many of the class powers carry with them a WoW-like mechanic: Cool down times. Perhaps it was not intentional on the part of Wizards, but it is there. Encounter powers can only be used once per encounter, and are replenished after 5 minutes of rest, thus giving these abilities a 5 minute cool down. Many powers in WoW are similar, being useful only in a single fight (unless you are in a BG, or something really long).

Except that many of the Cool Down powers come into play in things like Raids and big long fights that take way, way, way longer than 5 minutes. The reason that 4e notes "An encounter, OR five minutes" is that the power might be used out of combat, thus warranting a 'how long does this last when we're not in an encounter?"

3. Magic Items are very close to those in WoW in a number of ways. First off, any character can potentially craft magic items by learning the Ritual Caster feat; in WoW, you can pick up any two professions, regardless of class.

You also need to be trained in Arcana, and spend a feat. In WoW, you get those professions free.

Some of these professions are parallel to those in 4E: Alchemists make potions, enchanters can enchant varies items, etc.

Except there was Alchemists and making Alchemy, and crafting items, in 3e. Hell, you didn't need a feat to make alchemical items (just a skill), but you needed a Feat to make magical items in 3e.

But this might help explain why many people see a parallel betwen the two games.

My belief is that people use the "It's just like WoW" as a catch-all derogatory without any experience/knowledge with either. It's just an easy dismissal; I highly doubt those that do think it's like WoW (but have not played it) know anything about making items in WoW, or the Disenchant method, for instance.

If you look hard enough, you can find similarities between two things that, while they have something in common, are not alike. "4e is just like Anime" because it has super-powered characters with wuxia named powers. "4e is just like Exalted" because there are effects that last all encounter/scene, and everyone has magical powers. "4e is just like M:tG" because of the symbols/colors, and the use of Cards (Power cards, quest cards). "4e is just like a boardgame" because it's so focused on square based movement. "4e is just like furries" because there are Dragonborn, which are anthropomorphic dragons with breasts. "4e is just like your mom" because (whatever).

Back before the 4e books were out, one of the common messageboard criticism was that 4e looked so "anime". This spawned a big long thread where someone said, "So, where's the anime?" No solid examples were found, but the thread concluded it was just more a general feeling or impression without straight parallels.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I voted "I've never played WoW, and I don't think 4e is like WoW"

My complaint in the "videogamey" department was more to do with how it reminded me of arcade combat games, like Mortal Kombat or Tekken.

My buddies & fellow groupmates, though, many of whom are major CRPG gamers were scanning through the 4Ed rulebook and horrified by elements they found in games with which they were familiar. To paraphrase, they felt that if they wanted to play a CRPG, they'd play one they're already in.