To be fair, while roles kinda-sorta existed in older editions of D&D, they weren't as focused on combat. In addition, I think the roles were more defined around the PCs' strengths and weaknesses rather than their contributions to a group.The archetypes exist in MMOs because they exist in RPGs. The archetypes are based on the four man D&D team: Fighter, Thief, Cleric, Magic-User.
Fighter = Tank
Magic-User = Blaster
Cleric = Healer
Thief = Damage dealer
I call shenanigans there.To be fair, while roles kinda-sorta existed in older editions of D&D, they weren't as focused on combat.
You mean like hit points, healing potions, levels, and classes?My buddies & fellow groupmates, though, many of whom are major CRPG gamers were scanning through the 4Ed rulebook and horrified by elements they found in games with which they were familiar.
You mean like hit points, healing potions, levels, and classes?![]()
Putting a label something makes it WoW like?
Except that many of the Cool Down powers come into play in things like Raids and big long fights that take way, way, way longer than 5 minutes. The reason that 4e notes "An encounter, OR five minutes" is that the power might be used out of combat, thus warranting a 'how long does this last when we're not in an encounter?"
You also need to be trained in Arcana, and spend a feat. In WoW, you get those professions free.
Except there was Alchemists and making Alchemy, and crafting items, in 3e. Hell, you didn't need a feat to make alchemical items (just a skill), but you needed a Feat to make magical items in 3e.
My belief is that people use the "It's just like WoW" as a catch-all derogatory without any experience/knowledge with either. It's just an easy dismissal; I highly doubt those that do think it's like WoW (but have not played it) know anything about making items in WoW, or the Disenchant method, for instance.
If you look hard enough, you can find similarities between two things that, while they have something in common, are not alike. "4e is just like Anime" because it has super-powered characters with wuxia named powers. "4e is just like Exalted" because there are effects that last all encounter/scene, and everyone has magical powers. "4e is just like M:tG" because of the symbols/colors, and the use of Cards (Power cards, quest cards). "4e is just like a boardgame" because it's so focused on square based movement. "4e is just like furries" because there are Dragonborn, which are anthropomorphic dragons with breasts. "4e is just like your mom" because (whatever).
Back before the 4e books were out, one of the common messageboard criticism was that 4e looked so "anime". This spawned a big long thread where someone said, "So, where's the anime?" No solid examples were found, but the thread concluded it was just more a general feeling or impression without straight parallels.
Exactly. Lower XP to gain a level aside, the thief's lower effectiveness in combat was supposed to be balanced by his ability to overcome noncombat challenges (admittedly, rather specific noncombat challenges, but noncombat challenges nonetheless).I call shenanigans there.
What was the purpose of the Fighter, outside of combat?
What was the purpose of the Cleric, outside of healing wounds from combat?
Only two out-of-combat focuses existed:
The Thief. The thief SUCKED in a fight, but he had skills. So his lack of combat utility was balanced by him being bomb defuser.
Non-Combat related spells from spellcasters. Your Charm Person, your Adjure, your Scry and teleport, etc.
Sure; I'm just in a "Point, counterpoint" mood.You could be right. I was simply pointing out the things that stuck out in my mind about the system. You are free think what you wish. My intention was not to say it is like WoW, but to point out some of the things that can cause people to think it resembles WoW
Depends on your perspective.I don't think that saying the games have certain similarities is a "catch-all derogatory." WoW was, after all, based off of RPG's like D&D. What's wrong with the reverse?
Dannyalcatraz said:To paraphrase, they felt that if they wanted to play a CRPG, they'd play one they're already in.
Sure; I'm just in a "Point, counterpoint" mood.![]()
Depends on your perspective.
I'm not exaggerating; I've seen those very claims here. Before 4e was launched, "It's just like anime" and "It's videogamey" were used in a derogatory fashion, because they were used in sentences like "I don't like it because it looks videogamey".
The problem many have with the reverse is: it's dumbing D&D down, stripping away what they feel "is D&D" out of it, taking away "the roleplaying", making everything about combat, killing creativity, and taking the flavor out of everything.
Just to use a reason against videogame influence in RPGs in this very thread: