my group was pretty much done with rolling in 3.5... by the end we had all sorts of weird house rules to keep the game going, and when 4e came out it was the only thing that brought us back to D&D (we had just given up on it) and stats was a big one. Now the 4e/PF spread split us a bit and the PF group did roll for a bit, but now in unified 5e we all use arrays and PB (sometimes we do different arrays though).The flaw here is rolling.
No serious discussion can take place if we a rolling stats.
D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.
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Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
"RACIAL TRAITS
The description of each race includes racial traits that are common to members of that race. The following entries appear among the traits of most races."
"ABILITY SCORE INCREASE
Every race increases one or more of a character's ability scores."
That's why I explained to you why you were wrong at the same time.
I shouldn't have to fix the issue.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I thought you might try that argument, so I'm going to quote them again and now add in an additional quote.
"Their courage and endurance are also easily a match for any of the larger folk."
"Dwarves are solid and enduring like the mountains they love, weathering the passage of centuries with stoic endurance and little change."
"The dwarf god Moradin forged the first dwarves in his great workshop, causing them to spring to life from inert metal when he cooled the heated castings with his breath."
"Moradin crafted the dwarves' sturdy bodies, giving them the strength to work for long periods of time."
"His gifts of durability and purpose gave the dwarves all they needed..."
Additional quote...
"CONSTITUTION
Constitution measures health, stamina, and vital force."
I notice that you avoided saying endurance when you point out what those quotes say. Stamina and endurance are synonyms. Weathering the passage of centuries with little change and durability equate to health.
I've answered this for you multiple times in this thread.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
And, yet, that's the default method for generating ability scores.The flaw here is rolling.
No serious discussion can take place if we a rolling stats.
Even taking the Standard Array or Point-Buy Method, players tend to try to mitigate ASIs when playing a class that the race's ASI's don't benefit by placing higher scores in the class' relevant abilities. At that point, racial ASIs are just getting in the way and are a tax for creating a non-optimized race/class combination.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Hush you! I'm having a serious discussion.The flaw here is rolling.
No serious discussion can take place if we a rolling stats.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Unless you do a racial +2 and a floating +2.And, yet, that's the default method for generating ability scores.
Even taking a the Standard Array or Point-Buy Method, players tend to try to mitigate ASIs when playing a class that the race's ASI's don't benefit by placing higher scores in the class' relevant abilities. At that point, racial ASIs are just getting in the way and are a tax for creating a non-optimized race/class combination.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
No, the racial bonus will still need to be mitigated. Besides, that's not even on the table.
I didn't 'leave out' on purpose... I did only pick out what I thought of as key words... but Okay lets use YOUR key words... Stamina and Endurance. you can give expertise or advantage on rolls to showcase both, you can have them hold there breath an extra minute, you can (as I suggested before) have them heal quicker or easier.I thought you might try that argument, so I'm going to quote them again and now add in an additional quote.
"Their courage and endurance are also easily a match for any of the larger folk."
"Dwarves are solid and enduring like the mountains they love, weathering the passage of centuries with stoic endurance and little change."
"The dwarf god Moradin forged the first dwarves in his great workshop, causing them to spring to life from inert metal when he cooled the heated castings with his breath."
"Moradin crafted the dwarves' sturdy bodies, giving them the strength to work for long periods of time."
"His gifts of durability and purpose gave the dwarves all they needed..."
Additional quote...
"CONSTITUTION
Constitution measures health, stamina, and vital force."
I notice that you avoided saying endurance when you point out what those quotes say. Stamina and endurance are synonyms. Weathering the passage of centuries with little change and durability equate to health.
still none of that fluff says "add 2 to Con" at least with elves you have dexterous...but dwarves flavor text is very open.
weathering the passage of centures sounds more to me like how long they live.
not once that I have understood your answer. So if you ARE answering you are doing so very cagy... even now looking back all I see is (paraphrase) "Dwarves need +2 or else they are not really tough, and anything else that makes them tough doesn't count"
I'm a salesman by trade. I know salesman talk.
WOTC doesn't want to the new versions of the races to obviously outclass the original ones. The updates might be better but they won't invalidate the old ones completely. WOTC doesn't want to make it look like they are power creeping
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
It could be, though. We don't know what they are considering and they backed off of alignment removal. This issue is just as big.
As for the racial bonus needing to be mitigated, every stat is useful. By having a +2 for your prime stat, a +2 racial is going to be as good or probably better than a floating +1.
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