D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[jmartkdr2]

That is still faulty logic.
A wood elf with a twisted leg would still have more dexterous hands than a baseline human or be more dexterous than a human with a similar condition. And a dwarven circus performer would still be a dwarf and thus not as dexterous than a elven performer with similar background. But he would have better endurance.
Being a circus performer does not change your biology.

That's entirely logical, but the in-game result is either:

1. The mechanical difference is too small to care, so you have a +1 dex but it doesn't affect rolls and elves don't actually feel more dexterous, or

2. The difference is important, so people only play dexterity classes as elves and endurance classes as dwarves (ie there would never be a dwarf acrobat) not because it's illegal but because you're just going to be bad at you job which is bad for the team, or

3. the difference is big enough to be noticeable to some people and not to others, so some people have reaction 1 and some have reaction 2. This is what 5e does.

If the dex bonus isn't enough to make everyone think it's stupid to play a dwarf archer, it isn't consistently informing the fiction.

 

[Ixal]

That's entirely logical, but the in-game result is either:

1. The mechanical difference is too small to care, so you have a +1 dex but it doesn't affect rolls and elves don't actually feel more dexterous, or

2. The difference is important, so people only play dexterity classes as elves and endurance classes as dwarves (ie there would never be a dwarf acrobat) not because it's illegal but because you're just going to be bad at you job which is bad for the team, or

3. the difference is big enough to be noticeable to some people and not to others, so some people have reaction 1 and some have reaction 2. This is what 5e does.

If the dex bonus isn't enough to make everyone think it's stupid to play a dwarf archer, it isn't consistently informing the fiction.

Again faulty logic.
Not every person only plays optimized race/class combinations as they build their characters not based on a combat role like they would in a video game but according to a story concept.

 

[Bolares]

Again faulty logic.
Not every person only plays optimized race/class combinations as they build their characters not based on a combat role like they would in a video game but according to a story concept.

Assuming that only optimizers care about their ability scores is also "faulty logic" as you say....

Also, there is a false dichotomy here between optmizers and people play according to a story concept. That's a lot of faulty logic

 

[Ixal]

Assuming that only optimizers care about their ability scores is also "faulty logic" as you say....

Also, there is a false dichotomy here between optmizers and people play according to a story concept. That's a lot of faulty logic

Only an optimizer would refuse to play a unoptimised race/class combination which is what point 2 represents.

 

[Oofta]

I think I was unclear: I've never seen people play hill dwarves differently the mountain dwarves.

It's not often that I see most people play any race noticeably different from any other race.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That is still faulty logic.
A wood elf with a twisted leg would still have more dexterous hands than a baseline human or be more dexterous than a human with a similar condition. And a dwarven circus performer would still be a dwarf and thus not as dexterous than a elven performer with similar background. But he would have better endurance.
Being a circus performer does not change your biology.

Why are the elve's hands dexterous? Nothing about him being a wise old intelligent elf requires him to have good hand-eye coordination.

And the dwarf isn't being compared to an elvish performer. He's a wise olf dwarf being compared to the wise old elf, he's just more the practical wisdom than the scholarly type.

Besides, if we want to bring biology into this, they are both level 20 have a 20 in all stats, which would make them equal. The elf still isn't superior, even if he thinks he is.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Only an optimizer would refuse to play a unoptimised race/class combination which is what point 2 represents.

Nope, that statement is wrong in multiple ways for multiple reasons. Plus it borders on namecalling

 

[Bolares]

Only an optimizer would refuse to play a unoptimised race/class combination which is what point 2 represents.

That’s faulty logic

 

[Scribe]

Unless there is actual world building, ASI is just as nonsensical as anything else at this point.

 

[jmartkdr2]

It's not often that I see most people play any race noticeably different from any other race.

I get it, but dwarves have a lot of personality and cultural traits that show up in every game (aside form deliberate subversions), elves are always elves, teiflings are always teiflings, gnomes are always annoying. But the only race where subrace seems to get played out (in my experience) is elves, because they are pretty different.