Wrath of the Immortals: what happens and why is it controversial?

[Mika]

By the way -- going by the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, the Aftermath section given above contains numerous inaccuracies in regard to later events. Was this aftermath as published in Wrath of the Immortals or from elsewhere? I haven't looked at that part of Wrath of the Immortals in a while, but I would be surprised if there was such a radical difference between the original post-Wrath plan and what was actually published in the almanacs -- at the very least I would have expected to see some fan debate over the discrepancies.

The most notable differences seem to be:

1) The remains of the Alphatian Empire did not ultimately fall under Thyatian control -- the Alphatians were actually able to pull things together and start a second empire out of what remained on the surface. Thyatis, after dealing with severe internal problems, barely recovered those parts of its empire that had broken away or been conquered during the war.

2) Glantri a threat to Thyatis? Allied with the Orcs of Thar? Etienne a minion of Entropy? Glantri was a darker place, true, but it was more threatened than a threat to others.

 

[rogueattorney]

By the way -- going by the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, the Aftermath section given above contains numerous inaccuracies in regard to later events. Was this aftermath as published in Wrath of the Immortals or from elsewhere? I haven't looked at that part of Wrath of the Immortals in a while, but I would be surprised if there was such a radical difference between the original post-Wrath plan and what was actually published in the almanacs -- at the very least I would have expected to see some fan debate over the discrepancies.

The most notable differences seem to be:

1) The remains of the Alphatian Empire did not ultimately fall under Thyatian control -- the Alphatians were actually able to pull things together and start a second empire out of what remained on the surface. Thyatis, after dealing with severe internal problems, barely recovered those parts of its empire that had broken away or been conquered during the war.

2) Glantri a threat to Thyatis? Allied with the Orcs of Thar? Etienne a minion of Entropy? Glantri was a darker place, true, but it was more threatened than a threat to others.

I think the end of WotI leaves a very weak Thyatia in control of many of the former Alphatian provinces, and that many of the the timelines in the Almanacs deal with the rebellions of the Alphatian provinces, as well as a number of the Thyatis' outlying areas - Pearl Islands, Ochalea, the Hinterlands, etc. I could be wrong though. It's been so long since I've read any of this, though. I think the 2014 Almanac left Thyatis in bad shape and a united Known World Alphatia being contacted by the Hollow World Alphatia.

There was some threads in the Almanacs' timelines that had Kol becoming a prince of Glantri and Syn, the Night Dragon, gaining a bunch of power there. But allied with the orcs? Etienne a minion of Entroy? Search me. I never saw the 2e adventure, Mark of Amber. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Regardless, the net effect of WotI was to sink a continent, blow a hole into another continent, and change the fundamental nature of two of the main pc homelands - Karameikos and Glantri. Karameikos changed from a fledgling duchy on the brink of racial and religious civil war to a fairly prosperous and powerful kingdom. Glantri lost its main leader, had its southern quarter blown to bits, and with the introduction of clerics, became much more of a bog standard D&D setting.

 

[Mika]

I think the end of WotI leaves a very weak Thyatia in control of many of the former Alphatian provinces, and that many of the the timelines in the Almanacs deal with the rebellions of the Alphatian provinces, as well as a number of the Thyatis' outlying areas - Pearl Islands, Ochalea, the Hinterlands, etc. I could be wrong though. It's been so long since I've read any of this, though. I think the 2014 Almanac left Thyatis in bad shape and a united Known World Alphatia being contacted by the Hollow World Alphatia.

There was some threads in the Almanacs' timelines that had Kol becoming a prince of Glantri and Syn, the Night Dragon, gaining a bunch of power there. But allied with the orcs? Etienne a minion of Entroy? Search me. I never saw the 2e adventure, Mark of Amber. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Regardless, the net effect of WotI was to sink a continent, blow a hole into another continent, and change the fundamental nature of two of the main pc homelands - Karameikos and Glantri. Karameikos changed from a fledgling duchy on the brink of racial and religious civil war to a fairly prosperous and powerful kingdom. Glantri lost its main leader, had its southern quarter blown to bits, and with the introduction of clerics, became much more of a bog standard D&D setting.

I was looking just at the official Poor Wizard's Almanacs by TSR -- obviously they can't be held accountable for what others came up with later in the later unofficial Mystaran Almanacs, for good or for ill. I do have Mark of Amber -- without giving too much away, it definitely contradicts the idea of Etienne d'Ambreville becoming a minion of Entropy. The WotI adventure book's "Year 1,010 and Afterwards" gives a summary that is compatible with the almanacs -- the "Aftermath" section above is not what is written there.

But yes, the changes to the setting were rather severe -- to the point that it could not possible settle back down to anything stable before 1030 AC or so.

 

[havard]

But yes, the changes to the setting were rather severe -- to the point that it could not possible settle back down to anything stable before 1030 AC or so.

If you are going to change things, you might as well make the changes severe.

Still, this is a fantasy setting we are talking about. If the players are set on it, there is no reason not to have changing everything back possible, should the players want to.

I am certainly planning on having Alfheim restored and Alphatia return to the surface eventually.

My main beef with WotI and the products set after it, is rather the changes that "fixed" problems of the AC1000 era, but failed to replace them with other situations. For instance, if the Black Eagle has been removed from Karameikos and Clerics are allowed in Glantri, how does that make the setting more interesting?

Havard