WWA and Improved Trip

[Pickaxe]

This came up in our last session. A fighter with Whirlwind Attack and Improved Trip attacked a bunch of creatures using the former. Could he opt to use his Whirlwind Attack to trip them all, and, if so, would he then get his extra melee attack on any or all of the tripped foes?

Since trip can be used any time you are making a melee attack, it seemed like tripping everyone was fine. WWA, though, does say that you lose extra attacks from other sources (citing Cleave as an example), so would the extra attack from Improved Trip fall under that umbrella?

--Axe

 

[shilsen]

As you've noted, it's a matter of interpretation. I personally would consider the extra attack from Improved Trip as prevented by the restriction on WWA.

 

[Legildur]

From Improved Trip feat benefit: "...you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt."

To me that means you would get the attack on the now prone opponent as this attack is not a bonus or extra attack - it's as if you hadn't used your attack.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I agree with Legildur.

 

[Pickaxe]

Another twist: What happens when more than one opponent (in this situation) beats the fighter in the trip check? I assume that each untripped opponent would get a chance to trip the fighter, but our DM was wondering if some of them could use Aid Another to improve the chances of one.

Oh, and just to clarify the position of Legidlur and PoE, would the "replacement" melee attack be a separate attack for each tripped opponent, or would it be a WWA, though only affecting those who were tripped?

--Axe

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh, and just to clarify the position of Legidlur and PoE, would the "replacement" melee attack be a separate attack for each tripped opponent, or would it be a WWA, though only affecting those who were tripped?

WWA grants one attack for each opponent in reach. If you're surrounded by 5 opponents, WWA grants five attacks.

For each attack that successfully trips an opponent, you can make a single melee attack against that opponent. So if you attempt five trips, and succeed on three, you'd make your single melee attack against each of those three.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For each attack that successfully trips an opponent, you can make a single melee attack against that opponent. So if you attempt five trips, and succeed on three, you'd make your single melee attack against each of those three.

.. for a grand total of 8 attack rolls of the d20:

1. 5 independent rolls for the WWA
2. 3 independent rolls for the Improved Trip attacks

EDIT: Attack rolls, specifically.

 

[Infiniti2000]

.. for a grand total of 8 rolls of the d20:

(not counting the opponents) You forgot the 3-7 opposed trip rolls. (at least 3, up to 7 depending on if you hit the other two times)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

(not counting the opponents) You forgot the 3-7 opposed trip rolls. (at least 3, up to 7 depending on if you hit the other two times)

... and, since we know we didn't trip at least two of the guys, there's the possbility of countertripping to take into account.

I've edited my above accordingly.

 

[Pickaxe]

.. for a grand total of 8 attack rolls of the d20:

1. 5 independent rolls for the WWA
2. 3 independent rolls for the Improved Trip attacks

EDIT: Attack rolls, specifically.

Ah, apparently we've been misinterpreting WWA. I thought it was like Manyshot (one attack roll applied to more than one attack, or, in the case of WWA, opponent), but, upon re-reading the description (and the posts here), you roll to attack each opponent, just you only attack each one once and at full BAB. That accords with the example posted above. Thanks!

--Axe