X/day mechanic; what's the problem? (Mercule, looking your way...)

[Crothian]

sudden metamagic is first from the minature handobbok and then reprinted in Complete Arcane

 

[philreed]

I like the X/day mechanic. It allows characters to have some awesome powers while making players _think_ before actually using these abilities. Is now really the best time to rage?

 

[Crothian]

Is now really the best time to rage?

Its always a good time to rage

 

[Sammael]

What don't you like about Power Critical? I think it's a great feat. Furthermore, I don't understand the connection to Sudden Metamagic (what book is that from anyway?) or these other abilities, as Power Critical is not limited to a certain number of times/day.

He is probably referring to the 3.0 version of Power Critical, which allowed you to declare any one attack as a critical threat... 1/day.

 

[Davelozzi]

He is probably referring to the 3.0 version of Power Critical, which allowed you to declare any one attack as a critical threat... 1/day.

I missed that one, and had to flip through a couple of books to find it (in Masters of the Wild), I guess I never paid much attention to the feat selection in that book. But yeah, that's certainly a whole different beast than the 3.5 version in Complete Warrior.

 

[mearls]

Its always a good time to rage

Ah ha! And therein lies the rub.

X/day abilities are a lot of fun for one, important reason: they add a layer of resource management to the game. Rage is a great example of this. At low levels, once per day a barbarian can become the best warrior in the group, even if there's a fighter in the party. The key lies in figuring out what battle is the one where you need to be that best warrior.

A check to use an ability can work, but I don't think it's an optimal design in this case.

If rage was activated with a check against a DC, you have a couple problems. If the DC is high, your ability to use the power is now mostly random. You might as well try using it as often as possible, since there's no guarantee you can use it when you need it most. You're better off getting as much use out of it as possible, and by doing so lessening the load in spells used, damage taken, magic items consumed, and so on, for other characters. If the DC is low, you can just use the power as often as you want. This basic problem remains embedded in the ability regardless of how you attack it.

In essence, you replace resource management and player decisions with luck. That's a bad design choice for this case, IMO. It can work in a lot of other areas - particularly if you require a standard or full-round action to make the check, and the benefit provided is somewhere below rage. For a minor benefit, it could be a great way to add a random element to the game and give players more choices in combat. I'm not sure it's a good choice for a class-defining ability like turning or rage.

 

[Aaron2]

If rage was activated with a check against a DC, you have a couple problems. If the DC is high, your ability to use the power is now mostly random. You might as well try using it as often as possible, since there's no guarantee you can use it when you need it most. You're better off getting as much use out of it as possible, and by doing so lessening the load in spells used, damage taken, magic items consumed, and so on, for other characters. If the DC is low, you can just use the power as often as you want.

For Rage, I'd suggest that it would be better to have a die roll to determine the after-effect rather than if the Rage works. The character Rages as normal but then must roll a Fort save to see if he becomes fatigued for the rest of the day (rather than just for a few rounds). Adjust the DC for Greater Rage and Mighty Rage. If you make the save by alot, you avoid the fatigue all together (thus eliminating need for Tireless Rage).

My problem with X/day is twofold. First, it is a huge hassle to remember the number of charges remaining for all the various abilities. This is expecially loathsome for things like gnomes spells which have multiple abilities all 1/day or paladins with X/week abilities mixed in. I have two character with four different X/day abilities. I had to make a special chart just for them. Secondly, I found that most players tend to save their charges to such a degree that they end up not using that power on most days. I'm also annoyed by things like Wildshape which limit both the number of uses and the things that you can turn into.

I've been trying to slowly eliminate all X/day abilities that don't directly involve spells or magic items.


Aaron

 

[Ferret]

I'm ok with X/day abilities, but I have been thinking of creating something like endurance points, to adjudicate how much stenuous`activity (Raging, knocking down walls, battles etc) you can do before fatigue, exhaustion and so on. I might add in other 1/day abilities, maybe even spells. I don't know how close that idea is to action points, I haven't read that far into AU.

 

[Crothian]

If rage was activated with a check against a DC, you have a couple problems. If the DC is high, your ability to use the power is now mostly random. You might as well try using it as often as possible, since there's no guarantee you can use it when you need it most. You're better off getting as much use out of it as possible, and by doing so lessening the load in spells used, damage taken, magic items consumed, and so on, for other characters. If the DC is low, you can just use the power as often as you want. This basic problem remains embedded in the ability regardless of how you attack it.

That's why I suggested a rising DC. So, to use the ability is a DC 10 with a +5 to the DC for each time it has been used. Sure, it adds luck into the ability but that luck goes botrh ways. The player could potentially use the ability a lot more then usual and would feel good about that luck.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I used to be bothered by the X/day format -- flavorwise it just felt arbitrary. However I always did like the fact it gave players a little extra resource to call on in emergencies or use to make strategic decisions.

Ferret's idea of some kind of endurance points that you use to fuel special abilities could work well and feel better from a flavor standpoint (BTW -- that's not much at all like action points).

However, now that I'm older I figure it will all work out to be pretty much the same: you get some abilities that you can use occasionally and thus have to budget. And the X/day format is awfully simple.

What I do is keep in mind and explain to my players that these mechanics are abstractions of whatever real process allows their characters (and my monsters) to use those abilities. Then I fill in the flavor text according to whatever fits best and most interestingly into the metaphysics of the current campaign I'm running.