X/day mechanic; what's the problem? (Mercule, looking your way...)

[Psion]

Sure there is the "wiff factor" and on the other side there is the potential for using it more often.

Right, but you also have that option if you give the players some pool like action point or resolve or whatever to stretch their limits, but which lack the "wiff factor" annoyance.

I mean I can understand it from a simulationist standpoint, but for me, the suspension for disbelief problem doesn't come from not neatly modeling it like you suggest, but just from having a patently arbitrary usage limit "in your face." So I feel I can satisfactorily get rid of the SOD problem without importing the "damned dice" problem by using a limited resource pool like action points.

 

[swrushing]

Right, but you also have that option if you give the players some pool like action point or resolve or whatever to stretch their limits, but which lack the "wiff factor" annoyance.

I mean I can understand it from a simulationist standpoint, but for me, the suspension for disbelief problem doesn't come from not neatly modeling it like you suggest, but just from having a patently arbitrary usage limit "in your face." So I feel I can satisfactorily get rid of the SOD problem without importing the "damned dice" problem by using a limited resource pool like action points.

ahhh, but then you get the "unconnected events become connected" prpblem where, "because i dodged the fireball earlier in the day" (spent an action die to make reflex save in earlier encounter), "i now find I cannot to rage" (No action point to modify the rage roll.)



i can buy "can only do so often" a lot better than i can buy the pool of universally shared resources between radically unconnected events. it still produces choices, but more related and intuitive choices. So, i would not want to "handle" nasic rage usage "problems" with action points, as it ties too many unrelated things together.

 

[A'koss]

ahhh, but then you get the "unconnected events become connected" prpblem where, "because i dodged the fireball earlier in the day" (spent an action die to make reflex save in earlier encounter), "i now find I cannot to rage" (No action point to modify the rage roll.).

Consider the connection like this - Action points/Resolve represent your ability to push yourself beyond your normal limits/to the max. For instance, if you're young and inexperienced and have already pushed yourself to the limit in order to dodge a deadly fireball earlier, you may not have the mental stamina left to push yourself into berserker rage later on. Small fears, doubts and mental fatigue (diminished resolve) have now set in and you'll need time to collect yourself again.

Make sense?

Cheers!

 

[swrushing]

Well, in my experience, nothing breeds confidence like success. so, no, an earlier expenditure of RESOLVE which led to success does not lead me to conclude "but later, i won't be able to rage".

one might expect an earlier FAILURE to be likely to result in "small fears, doubts and mental fatigue" and prohibit some future actions due to insecurities, but not an earlier SUCCESS.

Consider the connection like this - Action points/Resolve represent your ability to push yourself beyond your normal limits/to the max. For instance, if you're young and inexperienced and have already pushed yourself to the limit in order to dodge a deadly fireball earlier, you may not have the mental stamina left to push yourself into berserker rage later on. Small fears, doubts and mental fatigue (diminished resolve) have now set in and you'll need time to collect yourself again.

Make sense?

Cheers!

 

[A'koss]

Well, in my experience, nothing breeds confidence like success. so, no, an earlier expenditure of RESOLVE which led to success does not lead me to conclude "but later, i won't be able to rage".

one might expect an earlier FAILURE to be likely to result in "small fears, doubts and mental fatigue" and prohibit some future actions due to insecurities, but not an earlier SUCCESS.

I agree that a confidence bolstering success can help - I've actually incorporated that into the Resolve rules we use whereby you recover some Resovle if you overcome a greater that party CR challenge or when you accomplish a story-based goal. However, that does not negate the fact that you had to exert yourself to the max/beyond your normal limits in the first place and even success can be mentally fatiguing - I sure any soldier who's seen close combat can attest to that.

Cheers!

 

[hong]

X/day will be with us forever because Blizzard copyrighted mana pools for their Diablo II wargame. kthxbye.

 

[swrushing]

I agree that a confidence bolstering success can help - I've actually incorporated that into the Resolve rules we use whereby you recover some Resovle if you overcome a greater that party CR challenge or when you accomplish a story-based goal. However, that does not negate the fact that you had to exert yourself to the max/beyond your normal limits in the first place and even success can be mentally fatiguing - I sure any soldier who's seen close combat can attest to that.

i really never looked at a barbarian's rage ability as being keyed to mental fatigue levels.

In the current game, and barring additional restrictions being added beyond the need for action pts to rage, he can rage when (game term) fatigued or even (game term) exhausted from actually "pushing himself" like from forced marches, lack of sleep and the like. These do not, unless i missed something which is always possible, reduce or hinder his ability to rage.

hey, for some, adding a new "in between" kind of "tired" might be just the mechanic for some to rein in the barbarian rage.

Not for me.

 

[Psion]

ahhh, but then you get the "unconnected events become connected" prpblem where, "because i dodged the fireball earlier in the day" (spent an action die to make reflex save in earlier encounter), "i now find I cannot to rage" (No action point to modify the rage roll.).

Well, lets just say that I personally nor my players have ever thought of a rather abstract pool representing some sort of heroism to be a conceptual hurdle.

 

[hong]

I mean I can understand it from a simulationist standpoint, but for me, the suspension for disbelief problem doesn't come from not neatly modeling it like you suggest, but just from having a patently arbitrary usage limit "in your face." So I feel I can satisfactorily get rid of the SOD problem without importing the "damned dice" problem by using a limited resource pool like action points.

I fail to see how having a set amount of action points/hero points/drama points/whateveryoucallit points is any less arbitrary than having a set amount of uses per day.

 

[Psion]

I fail to see how having a set amount of action points/hero points/drama points/whateveryoucallit points is any less arbitrary than having a set amount of uses per day.

It's not any less arbitrary. It's just mroe abstract and less "in your face", and thus (to me) less of a SOD-breaker.

"Why can't I rage more than once a day" is a direct and troubling question for some people's suspension of disbeleif. When you can make than answer "you can... sometimes", the question is answered. It's the same answer, whether you randomize it or had a pool of points to extend it with.

"Why can I only push my arbitrary limits and arbitrary amount of times" is far less frequent and troubling question for most players IME.