X/day mechanic; what's the problem? (Mercule, looking your way...)

[Mouseferatu]

I didn't want to hijack the Sudden Metamagic thread, but...

At the risk of sounding like an oddball, I'll throw out that I've banned Sudden Metamagic feats. Not because of any concern with balance -- I think they're fine balance-wise -- but because I loathe any "x/day" mechanic. It's a clumsy and lazy way to handle things, whether manifested in spell slots, clerical turning attempts, barbarian rage, or some other form. Using the mechanic in a feat is especially egregious.

3E brought enough good mechanics to the table that I'm willing to accept that as interim baggage, but I'm not going to heap more wood on the fire. My singular major hope for 4E is that WotC will iron things out with the sloppy "x/day" features (except, maybe, spell slots as a sacred cow) because that'd solve pretty much every significant gripe I've got with the d20 system. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I've seen this opinion before, from Mercule and a few others, and I must confess that I'm a bit stymied. I can understand why it might seem odd, flavor-wise, though that's primarily a personal judgment call. But why do people object to it mechanically? It's a simple, straightforward way of tracking limited-use abilities. I guess one could do X/hour, or X/some other increment, but I know that as a player, I'd never want to use a mechanic like that.

So, why do you object? And--rather than sharing any of my own notions to start with, since they're pretty off-the-top-of-my-head, and since I don't object to the X/day)--what would you folks suggest as an alternative?

 

[Vaxalon]

No idea. Seems like an entirely reasonable mechanic.

 

[JimAde]

I think it's mostly a flavor objection. The barbarian can fly into a mind-altering rage the first time he runs into an enemy, but several hours later when he sees his real nemesis, he can't (I'm just not that angry ). That can be explained by him being tired, I guess, but what about bard abilities? And if the barbarian is tired, why can he still run for the rest of the day? If he takes some time to rest why can't he rage again?

Mind you, I have no problem with x/day, just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Crothian]

I find them boring. I'd perfer a roll to see if the ability works with an increasing difficulty.

 

[jmucchiello]

I find them boring. I'd perfer a roll to see if the ability works with an increasing difficulty.

But when would it stop getting more difficult?

The other part of the problem is when does the day reset? So the barbarian can rage and then when facing his sworn enemy an hour later not rage unless the first rage occurred at 11:02pm. Is that logical?

My favorite strawman argument is turning undead where the cleric worships an extremely anti-undead deity. As he calls for the power Anti-Undead-Deity, the deity doesn't respond because his cleric is charismatic enough to convince him that these undead need smiting. Huh?

As long as spell slots are in the game, though, I suspect x/day abilities will not go away.

 

[Mouseferatu]

As I said, I can see where some of the flavor objections come from. But I'm still not convinced there are any viable alternatives. I don't like a whole mess of "roll to see if they work" abilities; it slows things down, and it means someone having a bad night has become useless. And as was said, when would the "increasing difficulty" reset?

IMC, supernatural 1/day abilities reset at a given time--i.e., the cleric's turn undead resets when he gets his new spells--while nonsupernatural ones like rage reset when the character sleeps. It seems the most logical way to do it.

 

[Crothian]

the reset happens the same time the resets happens for the x/day abilites. I've never fouindf that the rolling of a few more dice really slows things down once people get used to the mechanic. Anything new slows the game down as people adjust.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

My biggest problem with 1/day abilities is that, well, they're usually rather awful.

The barbarian's rage is an exception to this; it's clearly one of the strongest class features in D&D, right up there with Evasion and Divine Grace. Even so, barbarians end up dead far more often than paladins and monks. OK, not paladins, but being stabbed in your sleep by ticked off party members isn't a CR issue.

Consider the Sudden Metamagics. They're... lame. Most of the time, the player who took them just wasted a feat because he either used his Sudden too early or doesn't use it because he's afraid he'll use it too early. It mostly ends up being either overkill or a finishing blow technique to use against those really tough "boss" enemies; the latter is at least somewhat useful. But once in a blue moon, they do something really surprising and useful and either make the GM mad (if he's the sort that gets mad about players exploiting his creatures weaknesses) or at least gets calls of "Broken!" from the core-only crowd.

Power critical is the same thing, except that its absolutely abysmally awful, rather than sometimes useful.

Personally, I substitute an action point or action dice mechanic for most x/day abilities, or fatigue/exhaustion.

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I substitute an action point or action dice mechanic for most x/day abilities, or fatigue/exhaustion.

That would be great to, having the abilities activitated by action points or other such thing.

 

[Davelozzi]

Power critical is the same thing, except that its absolutely abysmally awful, rather than sometimes useful.

What don't you like about Power Critical? I think it's a great feat. Furthermore, I don't understand the connection to Sudden Metamagic (what book is that from anyway?) or these other abilities, as Power Critical is not limited to a certain number of times/day.