+X Items - Why so bad for the game?

[Jack Simth]

I don't think +X Items are bad for the game. I DO think the fact the game balance assumes the use of +X Items is bad for the game.

If you build the game to expect no +X's, then when you do have +X items, your definition of "Level appropriate" needs to be thrown out the window, because all the math and playtesting it's based on is no longer valid - you'll slaughter the stuff that was level appropriate without the gear.

If you build the game to expect some progression of +X's, then you've got the gear dependency problem: you're effectively required to have +X gear for the progression - if you don't have it, your definition of "Level appropriate" needs to be thrown out the window, because all the math and playtesting it's based on is no longer valid; you'll be slaughtered by the stuff that was level appropriate with the gear.

In the end, you're going to get stuck with one or the other situation - unless you have a particularly good DM who's skilled at eyeballing encounters. But when you're doing that, you're relying on someone who can throw the definition of "Level appropriate" out the window. Which is, to say, you've still got one of the two situations above.

Now, you could build a game to allow magic items but not +X stuffs - it's totally doable, really - but the main way to do it is to get rid of the +X gear from the get-go when designing the game in the first place, and make the stuff that does exist have drawbacks (+A attack, but -A damage, with a given weapon type of thing). It won't work if you try to alter an existing game to fit.

 

[Noctos]

Salvatis darts to his sword with tremendous speed removing the sword from the goblin's chest as her runs to a soldier’s aid. In one smooth motion he strikes a goblin in the chest three times his blade flowing left then right and down. The goblins gut unfolds at the gashes and the goblins organs pour in to the street. With out thought Salvatis turns and hacks down two more goblins. It took but moments to turn the goblins in to corpuses. Salvatis and the six remaining men stand drenched in the blood of there foes above there fallen brethren.

 

[Rakusia]

again good flavor text but some missed spelling. i applaud your story weaving though

 

[Alexander123]

I think you missed his point. He didn't say not to use them, he said you shouldn't have to rely on them.

In other words, they should be bonuses. A +X item should be pure icing on the cake, not necessary and already factored into CR appropriate ACs.

I disagree, I think they should be necessary.

Just as human survival requires the invention of tools.

 

[Rakusia]

human survial didnt require tools. other than rudimentry tools. if an axe is a standard wood cutting tool well say a saw is a masterwork and a chain saw is the +x equivelent. i know thats kinda basic but go with me. is the chainsaw required to fell a tree? no but it makes it easier. you cant say tools are = to enhanced items for survival. they simply make it easier

 

[Alexander123]

Yes but if you want to face higher CR encounters such as a lion, your bare hands are certainly not going to help you, neither are rudimentary tools going to help you.

 

[Rakusia]

yea but a sword will. enhancements make something better not standard

 

[Thunderfoot]

A List of why they are "bad"

1. Boring - a +x sword is usually refereed to as a +x sword. Do you own any +2 socks?
2. They assume that without said item, A != B, IOW balance (a dirty word in my book)
3. Not good enough - well sure its a +1 sword but I really wanted a +2 sword

I remember seeing stats for Bilbo/Frodo's sword Sting way back in 1e. IIRC it looked something like this.
Sting, Short sword, unique, + 1, +3 vs orcs/goblins, glows blue when orcs or goblins are within 50' *emphasis mine
Tell a player they found a +1 longsword, you get, "Meh" Tell them they found the legendary sword "Narlig" (a +1 longsword) and they refuse to use anything else. Honestly, it's all in the window dressing.

 

[Rakusia]

this is also true. everyone wants a named sword. personally i prefer a nameless so i can craft the legend to accompany my wonderful new sword

 

[Fallenibilis]

this is also true. everyone wants a named sword. personally i prefer a nameless so i can craft the legend to accompany my wonderful new sword

Thats what the fighter in my party is doing, while he could be using his father's +2 Bastard Sword he's using a +1 Lg Bastard Sword that he specificlly got crafted from this lime green crystal that has veins of mythril running through it. He named it Nonesuch.

Fallenibilis