D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide is excellent... and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[ccooke]

It is straight power creep and doesn't fix issues with any of the problematic existing archetypes like Frenzy Barbarian or Pact of the Blade Warlock, in instead offers archetypes that are strictly more or too powerful. I feel this is to sell books, not improve the game.

I honestly don't get that at all.

The power curve fits very well within the established range in the PHB. Many of the subclasses err on the side of theme over pure mechanics, and I'm fine with that. I don't see any of them as noticeably under or over powered.

 

[ad_hoc]

I honestly don't get that at all.

The power curve fits very well within the established range in the PHB. Many of the subclasses err on the side of theme over pure mechanics, and I'm fine with that. I don't see any of them as noticeably under or over powered.

How is Hexblade in any way comparable to the other patrons?

It is both ridiculously overpowered and thin on theme.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

How is Hexblade in any way comparable to the other patrons?

It is both ridiculously overpowered and thin on theme.

The hexblade is better than any other patron. But only really if you make a weapon based warlord. Otherwise it may be a bit better but not too much.

 

[ad_hoc]

The hexblade is better than any other patron. But only really if you make a weapon based warlord. Otherwise it may be a bit better but not too much.

The cha to hit/dmg is the weakest part.

Every other ability doesn't care about having a weapon.

Either Hexblade's Curse or Medium Armour/Shields would be far stronger than any other level 1 ability and the Hexblade gets both.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The cha to hit/dmg is the weakest part.

Every other ability doesn't care about having a weapon.

Either Hexblade's Curse or Medium Armour/Shields would be far stronger than any other level 1 ability and the Hexblade gets both.

I stand my point. The curse is 1 per short rest. That may be worth a lot or not depending on your campaign.
The fiend gets temp hp for every kill. 1 per short rest charm or frighten is also good. Always pn telepathy is hard to judge.
If you look at cleric domains you see about the same power disparancy. Same for the sorcerer. Dragon soul gives always on mage armor and tempest domain clerics get all types of armor and weapons and a lot of damage increases while a knowledge domain cleric gets expertise on two knowledge skills.
So even if it may be a bit of power creep, it is by far not problematic.

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[ad_hoc]

I stand my point. The curse is 1 per short rest. That may be worth a lot or not depending on your campaign.

If the Warlock isn't getting short rests then they are screwed anyway. Also, it's a bad game so the whole thing is moot.

The fiend gets temp hp for every kill.

Temp HP doesn't stack. This is the most powerful of the other abilities but it still pales in comparison to either Curse or Armour. And the Hexblade doesn't even need to deliver the finishing blow to benefit. This is a near guaranteed 1/short rest heal.

Curse is damage, crit (more damage) and a straight heal.

1 per short rest charm or frighten is also good.

I thought short rest abilities weren't good? You are actually saying that Charm/Frighten for 1 round is even close to Hexblade's Curse?

Most of the time it's not even worth the action. Curse only takes a bonus action. It is stronger than Hex and doesn't use a spell slot or concentration.

Always pn telepathy is hard to judge.

It is a worse Message only save not requiring an action. When you would most often want to use it, the action doesn't matter but the range and not requiring line of sight matters more.

I would rather have Message than this.

If you look at cleric domains you see about the same power disparancy. Same for the sorcerer. Dragon soul gives always on mage armor and tempest domain clerics get all types of armor and weapons and a lot of damage increases while a knowledge domain cleric gets expertise on two knowledge skills.
So even if it may be a bit of power creep, it is by far not problematic.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using EN World mobile app

Yes, other classes have other armour proficiences. Going from 14 AC to 19 AC is huge.

Clerics having armour doesn't negate how strong it is for a Warlock to have armour.

Hexblade is by far the most overpowered thing WotC has put out. It's not even close.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The hexblade is better than any other patron. But only really if you make a weapon based warlord. Otherwise it may be a bit better but not too much.

It isn’t even better for all types of Warlock. I’d rather use Archfey for anything but a purely damage focused Warlock.

 

[FrogReaver]

It isn’t even better for all types of Warlock. I’d rather use Archfey for anything but a purely damage focused Warlock.

I love GOO telepathy. Lots of fun to be had there.

I also think fiend is still a very proper blaster warlock (and it's amazing at that job). It's just apparently people didn't want mini sorcerer-like warlocks, they wanted mini paladin-like warlocks. Who would have thunk?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If the Warlock isn't getting short rests then they are screwed anyway. Also, it's a bad game so the whole thing is moot.



Temp HP doesn't stack. This is the most powerful of the other abilities but it still pales in comparison to either Curse or Armour. And the Hexblade doesn't even need to deliver the finishing blow to benefit. This is a near guaranteed 1/short rest heal.

Curse is damage, crit (more damage) and a straight heal.



I thought short rest abilities weren't good? You are actually saying that Charm/Frighten for 1 round is even close to Hexblade's Curse?

Most of the time it's not even worth the action. Curse only takes a bonus action. It is stronger than Hex and doesn't use a spell slot or concentration.



It is a worse Message only save not requiring an action. When you would most often want to use it, the action doesn't matter but the range and not requiring line of sight matters more.

I would rather have Message than this.



Yes, other classes have other armour proficiences. Going from 14 AC to 19 AC is huge.

Clerics having armour doesn't negate how strong it is for a Warlock to have armour.

Hexblade is by far the most overpowered thing WotC has put out. It's not even close.

I think now you are just raging. I never said short rest abilities are not good or anything like that. I said other abilities are different and maybe more frequently usable. And not bad at all.
And cursing 1 creature per short rest is only really useful in a fight against a single dangerous opponents. Against a horde of goblins you can curse on of them. And if you happen to meet the boss before your next short rest, all you have is your armor and shield. Not bad at all, but also not too great.

As to message: you need gestures, somatics and even a material component. My characte with message often could not use the spell because he was being observed. I had sold my soul to be able to use telepathy at will.
If damage and armor is your only metric, yes the hexblade is far too good. But if you chose to play only part of the whole game it is your own choice.

Careful: anectdotical evidence: in iur game the fey pact warlock , even though he had devil's sight and darkness and agonizing blast had his best moments with exactly the charm person, the reaction teleport that saved him from a several hundred deep fall and his at will disguise self. His actor feat helped him play several roles and problems were solved without fighting at all.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I love GOO telepathy. Lots of fun to be had there.

I also think fiend is still a very proper blaster warlock (and it's amazing at that job). It's just apparently people didn't want mini sorcerer-like warlocks, they wanted mini paladin-like warlocks. Who would have thunk?

I think people very much wanted both, as well as the manipulator Warlock. The phb just didn’t do a great job of giving us the “mini Paladin” Warlock, but did give us strong blaster and trickster warlocks, so the focus has been addressing that ever since.