D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide is excellent... and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

5ekyu

Hero
I honestly don't get that at all.

The power curve fits very well within the established range in the PHB. Many of the subclasses err on the side of theme over pure mechanics, and I'm fine with that. I don't see any of them as noticeably under or over powered.

yeah.

Not just for that post but for the Op i am not sure what the issue is.

To me XGTE did it right in that it offered more options for activities, fleshed out some "standard approaches" and so on but did NOT replace, supersede or render obsolete anything in the core book (that i recall.)

Si it is paying for a set of new options that you could have done yourself had you been so inclined and worked at it. most likely some of the issues have come up and were handled on the fly which is fine and now you can choose whether to use the newer "official optional" mechanics or not.

Some of it i agree with, some i don't. i will pick and choose which is exactly the way many games have presented "supplement rules products" since RPG was a thing.
 

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I'm worried about the XGtE ranger archetypes outshining those in the PHB. While in and of itself that's not much of a problem. The PHB ranger was a bit disappointing, but now there is no competitive default ranger option. All three new sub-classes completely outshine the hunter, which I consider to be the standard ranger, and now I'm at a bit of a loss. All three of the XGtE ranger sub-classes seem more like super heroes than characters from medieval romance poetry.
 

seebs

Adventurer
telepathy is huge and way different from message, because it works even if you have no languages in common. I wouldn't consider it weak at all.
 

seebs

Adventurer
also apparently posting only SOMETIMES moves you to the new page your post is on, and sometimes just leaves the draft up
 
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Wiseblood

Adventurer
So, okay. I've seen some people on forums that didn't like Xanathar's Guide. Fine. I personally think that it's an excellent book, and I will explain a few things:

1) The first pages have a very good collection of clarifications of the rules that have come up a number of times with new players in my groups - in particular the new explanation about casting multiple spells in one round. The restatement in XgtE isn't at all new, but it has instantly cleared up the issue for one of my players - someone totally new to tabletop RPGs - who wasn't getting the slightly scattered explanation in the PHB.

2) The new subclass material is full of things to make people think about their character roleplay and origin, and is yet another move by 5e to truly foster and support roleplaying at the table. I've read through all but a couple of the new subclasses in detail (and done chargen of a number of them with members of my gaming groups) and they're full of great ideas and interesting mechanics, but I've also seen nothing that I consider to be a balance worry as yet.

3) The racial feats look nicely balanced, and the released version of the Prodigy feat for humans, half-elves and half orcs is exceptional. Variant human with the prodigy feat is likely to be my go-to baseline from now on (and I wouldn't call that at all overpowered, either. It's just very good and opens up thematically appropriate options for a human or half-human character)

4) The spells contain some lovely things for players and DMs alike. If you can read Power Word: Pain or Soul Cage and not think of ways to use those against a player party, then you are a very different type of DM to me :)

But the thing that actually gives me pause is the tool proficiencies section.

It contains a large number of new player-focused options for how to handle tool proficiencies. It suggests new things that the players can do, and has a long list of what each specific tool proficiency can be used to do. Almost every option in the list is thematically good and an attractive thing to add to a campaign. Taken all together, the new set of things players can do using the material in this book is a clear improvement over the PHB and Basic. While it's certainly nothing like a new edition or even a .5 release, I would go as far as to say 5e+XgtE is effectively something like a 5.1e. What's more, I would prefer to play and run that 5.1e, because it has interesting and flavourful new things that I can use as a player and GM that I wouldn't get running with just the basic rules.

Now, I'm not complaining about that. This is not new for D&D in any way - we've had effectively different options for running games back to at least first edition. There are plenty of optional things in 3e and pathfinder that effectively create slightly different games if you use them. But XgtE is selling so well that, effectively, I suspect that many of us are going to end up playing a patch release version of 5e without really appreciating it. On the upside, I think it's a clear improvement to the game. On the downside, you can't now actually play the version of the game I like best with only the Basic rules any more.

It seems that WotC have worked out how to update 5e, though, and they're doing it in the most sensible way they can. I can't imagine things would have gone well for them if they released a new version of the PHB with the new material included, for instance. It's also not exactly fair to expect them to release new player non-character mechanics¹ without charging something for the time they took to develop it. It would be nice if, after it's been out for a while, the new player non-chargen options were added to Basic and the SRD. But that's quite possibly too much to expect :)


¹ What is the best term for this stuff? Non chargen player options? Gameplay options?

Racial feats and subclasses runs contrary to most of the 5e stuff. That would be like saying paladins can Only be LG in alignment.
 


Wiseblood

Adventurer
Isn't it more akin to saying only paladins can select an Oath??


I don't think so. Paladins can select an oath is a feature of the paladin class. Only elves can be this subclass is a limitation very much like only humans can be rangers. Admittedly it is a narrower limitaion than my example but if that limitation was imposed on nonhuman characters in favor of humans it would be a seen as a return to aniquated game mechanics.
 

5ekyu

Hero
I don't think so. Paladins can select an oath is a feature of the paladin class. Only elves can be this subclass is a limitation very much like only humans can be rangers. Admittedly it is a narrower limitaion than my example but if that limitation was imposed on nonhuman characters in favor of humans it would be a seen as a return to aniquated game mechanics.

i confess to be confused and have read thru the sub classes in XGTE only once or twice but can you tell me which of those sub-classes was restricted to a single race? As far as my limited and likely flawed recollection goes, they were all open to all as much as the base classes were.

Even the elven bow thingy said explicitly it was open to other races than elves, right?

"
Over the centuries, the methods of these elf archers have been learned by members of other races who can also balance arcane aptitude with archery."


 

Wiseblood

Adventurer
i confess to be confused and have read thru the sub classes in XGTE only once or twice but can you tell me which of those sub-classes was restricted to a single race? As far as my limited and likely flawed recollection goes, they were all open to all as much as the base classes were.

Even the elven bow thingy said explicitly it was open to other races than elves, right?

"
Over the centuries, the methods of these elf archers have been learned by members of other races who can also balance arcane aptitude with archery."



Oops, you're right. That oughta shut me up.
8)
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The tool proficiency stuff isn't new, per se, but a fleshing out of what is implied in Basic Core 5E: the designers have been using tools that way in an impromptu fashion, and have provided some examples of what the PHB/DMG suggest, same as with the wandering monster tables.
 

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