Xp question for WotC folks

[Tortoise]

I don't care about alignement (as there can still be tons of differences between Lawful Good types, for example), although I still stick my character to it in D&D 3rd Edition. Also, "involved and interesting" doesn't have to be the same for all. That's one GM-fiat I am glad to never ever experience about at all. But it's your gaming group, if they're ready to endure such things, kudos to them.
I know that I'd rather play a game for fun, instead of forcing myself to come so that my character doesn't get behind and hinders the other players characters, or trying to please the gamemaster individually so that I get more bonus points for the character advancements.

I'm sorry to see you misinterpreting my points.

Rewarding involved and interesting role-playing isn't just because they entertain me as DM, it is because they're helping everyone get more fun out of the game by helping focus everyone's attention, etc, and it's the reaction of the other players that I use as the major gauge to determine if an award like that is given. If they're all engaged and involved more by the efforts of each other, there is more fun happening, more fun is the goal.

Believe me, if they felt they were having to "endure" something, they would certainly let me know, at least verbally and certainly by quitting if it was robbing them of fun.

 

[Kzach]

Thus the root of my original question ... how does it work out in 4e? I hope to learn from the WotC folks what we can about 4e at least in this one area of the game.

Huh?

Wha?

I don't think you quite get it.

3.x and 4e classes are balanced equally. There is no need to cripple people with imbalanced levelling.

And if you're in a group where one person is getting so much XP from roleplaying that they're out-levelling others consistently, then there's a lot more wrong than the system. A group should never be more than a few hundred XP apart.

 

[Tortoise]

No offense, but I utterly disagree. Individual XP awards are a horrible mechanic and I hope the 4e rules discourage it strongly. It encourages alpha players to dominate the game and garner all the role-play awards while quieter players lose out and are effectively discouraged.

Some people are just shy and quiet at the table, a good DM should not punish them for that.

Furthermore, playing a lower level character is horribly discouraging for players who are consistently outshined by their higher level compatriots. If its worked out for you, then good for you. In the 20 plus years I have been gaming and DMing, I have never seen such techniques add anything positive to a game.

No offense taken. I've seen exactly what you mean about shy/quiet players. I think I've gotten well past that obstacle. In fact most of the best ideas and coolest moments (one of the many things I give bonus xp for) have actually come from the shy/quiet types.

By weighing the effect the RP is having on getting everyone involved and engaged, having more fun, to help me decide to give an award or not, I find that it doesn't tilt things noticeably out of whack to give a little bonus occasionally.

I also use the method from the DMG that gives more experience for the same encounters to the lower level characters. I find it helps keep everyone within a good range.

 

[Tortoise]

Huh?

Wha?

I don't think you quite get it.

3.x and 4e classes are balanced equally. There is no need to cripple people with imbalanced levelling.

And if you're in a group where one person is getting so much XP from roleplaying that they're out-levelling others consistently, then there's a lot more wrong than the system. A group should never be more than a few hundred XP apart.

Reread my original post.

I'm asking the folks who designed the newest version of the game a question in order to learn more about the experience/level balance side of the new edition and to see if they've play-tested level variant groups and how it plays out.

What's not to get ...

 

[Cirex]

Reread my original post.

I'm asking the folks who designed the newest version of the game a question in order to learn more about the experience/level balance side of the new edition and to see if they've play-tested level variant groups and how it plays out.

What's not to get ...

As someone said earlier, the DMG may have some guides about this. Giving full XP to non-attending players to keep the level balance, but rewarding those to attend the games with other things (loot, in example).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Reread my original post.

I'm asking the folks who designed the newest version of the game a question in order to learn more about the experience/level balance side of the new edition and to see if they've play-tested level variant groups and how it plays out.

What's not to get ...

I am not sure if a lot of playtesting got into this (if any at all), but 4E power curve is flatter than that of D&D, so the effects of being a few levels apart should be lessened.

Furthermore, the new encounter design guidelines (with XP per monster, and monster levels) should provide some some help in designing fair encounter.
The standard assumption is 5 PCs vs 5 monsters, IIRC.

So, if you have 3 6th level PCs, 1 3rd level and 1 2nd level (rather extreme), you should probably put them up against 3 6th level monsters, 1 rd level and 1 2nd level. During encounter design and the encounter itself try to create possibility for "equal level" PCs and NPCs engaging each other.
If the Ranger is 2nd level, he should probably have a 2nd level target available for him - for example a 2nd level artillery monsters or controller (anything that usually stays back and is a good target for a Striker). This is mostly for psychological reasons, since it gives everyone similar success rates in what they are doing, despite their level difference.

 

[malraux]

Yeah the XP budget for an encounter of mixed level characters should be relatively easy to figure. For a party of 2 1st level characters and 2 2nd level characters, the XP budget should be 2 X 100xp + 2 X 125xp = 450xp. I'd assume that the XP is passed out evenly (which means that lower level characters can never catch up), so 113xp to each character.

On the meta question, I'd just say, for me, the reward for showing up is being able to play in the game. The reward for good role play is good role play. I think its fair for the DM to reward the group if they get into it, but I'd just give out a flat xp bonus. I don't see that the different XP rewards actually helps anything, as the point of a game is to have fun, not to try to win points.

 

[Cam Banks]

My group and I stopped bothering with XP a couple of years ago, and now characters go up a level at appropriate points in the campaign (usually every other adventure). XP is a pain in the ass, to be honest, and none of the players expressed any great desire to have individual rewards as a DM token of recognition.

I'm probably not going to worry about it in 4e, either, though we'll see how it shapes up.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[MerricB]

I think you'll find that because of the less steep level curve (that is, players don't gain power quite so quickly), an imbalance in PC levels won't be the killer that it is in 3e.

 

[webrunner]

If you give a person less XP then everyone else, then you're not just punishing him, you're also punishing the rest of the party since they now have a weaker party member they have to deal with. If you give one person more XP, then you punish that player by having him have to calculate everything different than everybody else, and having encounters being more difficult then the rest of the party is normally able to cope with, so so much ends up on that person's shoulders. Also if you give one person an XP bonus you're more or less giving everyone else an XP penalty.

It ruins party unity, upsets balance, and is a horrible thing to do to your players. If you really want to give XP bonuses, give them to the entire party. They're supposed to be a team. Making them hate each other over XP bonuses is not the way to do that.

There are other rewards you can give.. magic items with interesting properties (That don't necessarily increase the power as much) or temporary "you did well" roll bonuses, or give them some sort of bonus to the skill roll in question (eg: diplomacy in 3.5, one could say a better role player doesn't have to roll as well). Or, maybe, give them a free action point.

As for punishments- just have something embarrassing happen to the character if they don't show up. Make it worse and worse every time.