Xp question for WotC folks

[Dausuul]

To answer (as best I can; I'm not a WotC employee, just going off what's been publically released) the OP's question, which seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable one...

The power curve in 4E is a lot flatter than it was in 3.X; roughly speaking, one 4E level is approximately one-half a 3.X level. So the game should tolerate level gaps better than 3.X did. A gap of 1-2 levels should be no problem at all. 3-4 might be pushing it.

On the other hand, since the system is back to fixed XP awards, there's no longer the "rubber band effect" of 3.X; lower-level characters won't be "pulled forward" and catch up. If one PC consistently gets smaller awards than the others for any reason, that character will fall further and further behind. I don't know if 4E will have a system for dealing with this; if not, you may want to house-rule one.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It ruins party unity, upsets balance, and is a horrible thing to do to your players. If you really want to give XP bonuses, give them to the entire party. They're supposed to be a team. Making them hate each other over XP bonuses is not the way to do that.

I've just got the idea - roleplaying XP yes, but you get them for everyone. "Bob, for narrating how you expose the Succubus so well, the party gets 500 extra XP! Tim, for coming up with the solution for the riddle, the party gets 500 extra XP!"
The party is rewarded, but everyone is still aware of who is "responsible" for it.

I am not sure it will work (there is a chance that people feel ignored if the DM forgets someone, or that the peer pressure makes it unbearable for those that didn't get extra XP.)

 

[Dragonblade]

My group uses these homemade action cards that reward good role-playing. An action card gives you some kind of random bonus depending on the card you draw. It might be a free extra attack. Bonus to AC for one round, bonus to hit for one round, etc. A few rare cards even gave you stat bonuses for the duration of a fight, etc.

Good RP was rewarded with a draw from the deck. You could save up your cards, and some people would save up quite a few and unleash them in a tough fight.

For 4e, I'll probably grant bonus action points. But I personally don't think bonus XP awards is a good system based on my past experience with such systems. In fact my group doesn't even use XP anymore for the most part. We just level up when the DM says we should.

 

[Tortoise]

While this post isn't directly tied to my question I want to point something out.

I'm getting the impression that some folks think I'm giving out huge xp bonus awards that will skew things way out of proportion. This could not be farther from the truth.

The highest bonus I've handed out in the last few years was 100 points and that was to a beginner who was following her sense of wonder, doing things that more jaded players routinely avoid, and through it she was moving the plot forward, discovering things, and she even saved the entire party of experienced players who had managed to get themselves into a looming TPK situation. Her free thinking benefited everyone and helped make the game a lot of fun. The other players still talk about it.

On average my bonus awards tend to stay in the 25 point range. Awards also don't happen every session, and are also only given for things done that benefit everyone.

Now I'm done with the side-tracked portion of the thread. I'm kind of annoyed because I created the thread with the idea of trying to learn something about 4e and feel I've ended up on trial over a very subjective thing.

Thank you to everyone who has added to the conversation in a constructive manner.

 

[Tharian]

I really like this question and I'm glad someone asked it.

I think this one has become a necessary type of question in my groups because we don't always go around attached at the hip. Some of the PCs will get involved in side quests that lead to varying power levels amongst the players.

 

[Dausuul]

While this post isn't directly tied to my question I want to point something out.

I'm getting the impression that some folks think I'm giving out huge xp bonus awards that will skew things way out of proportion. This could not be farther from the truth.

The highest bonus I've handed out in the last few years was 100 points and that was to a beginner who was following her sense of wonder, doing things that more jaded players routinely avoid, and through it she was moving the plot forward, discovering things, and she even saved the entire party of experienced players who had managed to get themselves into a looming TPK situation. Her free thinking benefited everyone and helped make the game a lot of fun. The other players still talk about it.

On average my bonus awards tend to stay in the 25 point range. Awards also don't happen every session, and are also only given for things done that benefit everyone.

Now I'm done with the side-tracked portion of the thread. I'm kind of annoyed because I created the thread with the idea of trying to learn something about 4e and feel I've ended up on trial over a very subjective thing.

Thank you to everyone who has added to the conversation in a constructive manner.

It's been said before--if you and your group are having fun, you're doing things right. There is no One True Way to play D&D.

 

[DandD]

Depends. Badwrongfun (a term I learned from this vey message board) is still fun, even if it's bad and wrong.
But yeah, in the end, all that matters is that the gaming group accepts it and everybody is having fun.*



*And no, that sentence is not a snarky or condescending remark, I really mean it honestly.

 

[ShinRyuuBR]

I don't know if there is a self-correcting mechanism in 4e's XP system, but it has been stated that XP should be granted to all members of the party, regardless of them showing up at the table or not. But if you don't show up, you don't get treasure. After all, treasure is much less coupled with XP in 4e. That said, the power difference between one level and the next is lower in 4e than it was in 3.x, so if you WANT to play at different levels, there won't be as much trouble as there would be in 3.x.

 

[The Little Raven]

Depends. Badwrongfun (a term I learned from this vey message board) is still fun, even if it's bad and wrong.

Badwrongfun is the best kind.

 

[Nytmare]

Badwrongfun (a term I learned from this vey message board) is still fun, even if it's bad and wrong.

I thought that "badwrongfun" was what you sarcastically called it when someone was unfairly calling your perfectly acceptable way of playing bad and wrong? Not when you personally think that someone else's perfectly acceptable way of playing is bad and wrong.

From my own experience, it wasn't till I was knee deep in 3rd Ed before the concept of starting a new character at any level other than first level was considered anything but high-cheatery. All the groups I had played with up until that point were of the opinion that every character started out at first level and worked their way up the ladder by seeing actual play time. Starting a new high-level campaign meant that you dusted off an old character who you had put time and energy into and who had managed to survive that long.

When 3rd came out, I really liked the fact that the levels were hammered into a system that built up lower level characters so that they would catch up to the guys in the lead, even if the system was also hardwired so that a 6th level party was sometimes stuck babysitting the new kid till they were all able to go out as a party again.

As for my game, a new character comes in one level lower than the party average. This was originally meant to convince one player who would, if given the opportunity, want to roll up a new character once or twice a night. It ended up being something we stuck with though, because we wanted the existing PCs to be the big name stars of the game world and we didn't like the idea of a new name and face stepping in and suddenly being the center of attention.

If a player doesn't show up (assuming that we've still got more than half the players and that it isn't a super important episode that night) they're run as an NPC and they get half XP for the night. Someone who comes up with a really spectacular idea gets an extra x1.5 tacked onto their experience for that leg of the adventure.

I don't see how this can be seen as unfair or crippling to the players if the game is being run as a challenge to the party is, and not what the party should be.

EDIT - Thinking back, I don't run published adventures, is that where people see this as the lower level characters as "falling behind"?