[XPH] Psionics Is Different

[Nifft]

What if Psionics, Arcana and Divine (Natural) magic are all different. Implications:

- The psionic power Dispel Psionics gains an Augmentation: for an additional 2 Power Points, the Psion may dispel Arcane or Divine magic instead of Psionics. He chooses which type to target when manifesting the power. For an additional 6 Power Points, he may target all three types simultaneously.

- Dispel Magic may target either type of magic (Arcane or Divine), chosen when casting the spell. It has no effect on effects of the other type.

- The 6th level spell, Greater Dispelling, targets all 3 types. The spell targets one type above the others, though, and the caster takes a -4 penalty on caster level checks against the other two. The primary target is chosen when casting the spell. Unless the caster has the Antipsionic Magic feat, he may only target Arcane or Divine magic.

- Additional Feat Effect: Antipsionic Magic: Your Dispel Magic and Greater Dispelling spells may target Psionic powers.

- Detect-spells should detect all three, and give an indication as to which is strongest in a given area.

Thoughts?

-- N

 

[Michael Morris]

Thoughts?

-- N

Allowing the different types of magic to be non-interactive can cause serious balance problems. I remember 2e psionics too well to even think about going back to the "oil & water" solution.

And BTW, could ya please use those pretty post icons I made

 

[Kalanyr]

Well at a glance it makes the Psion way to 2e-like for me he can dispel magic (arcane or divine) with a 4th level power price. For an arcane or divine caster it requires a feat (which is a greater cost than a couple of PP).

IOW the Psion becomes good at anti-magic but the magic users aren't by default good against Psionics, its not exactly fair unless there are other balances on Psionics.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I don't know how far they'll go, but there are a bunch of really nice anti-psionics feats in the XPH.

 

[Psion]

Allowing the different types of magic to be non-interactive can cause serious balance problems. I remember 2e psionics too well to even think about going back to the "oil & water" solution.

I agree. In 2e, I had my own version of psi-magic transparency because going the "different" route was too convenient for the players.

 

[SkidAce]

Well at a glance it makes the Psion way to 2e-like for me he can dispel magic (arcane or divine) with a 4th level power price. For an arcane or divine caster it requires a feat (which is a greater cost than a couple of PP).

IOW the Psion becomes good at anti-magic but the magic users aren't by default good against Psionics, its not exactly fair unless there are other balances on Psionics.

The above worked for my campaign because psionics was/is so rare. It was mostly used by bad guys. It had chances of causing insanity and was persecuted by mu/clerics like a witch hunt would be.

What they didn't know was GODS are psionic, and arcane/divine magic was a watered down version that was deemed "safe" for mortals.

 

[Nifft]

I don't know how far they'll go, but there are a bunch of really nice anti-psionics feats in the XPH.

Right. I'm using one above. I like them.

IMHO, those XPH Feats are indications of what's good about Psi/Magic Difference. The Powers that target other Powers -- Intellect Fortress, for example -- show that there is already a distinction between Magic and Psionics. That is to say, by the rules as written, psionics and magic are not transparent.

I'm simply trying to make the distinction more interesting.

IMC, different planetary environments caused sentients to evolve different abilities, which accounts for the Psi/Magic distinction. When you get to planar travel, things are even more different, since environments get downright non-Euclidian.

Any comments from people who like Psionics Is Different, or are willing to suspend the critique of my assumption in favor of ripping up my proposed conclusions?

Thanks again, -- N

 

[DreamChaser]

In my games, each of the three have partial transparency...

I break it down into Psionics, Magic, and Divinity (not the candy ).

If you use any effect that requires a roll (like Dispel Magic, Detect Magic) on the same type you do so normally. If you use a different type it becomes more difficult. I start at a DC increase of 5 but sometimes increase or decrease it depending upon how the effect is used.

A psion attempting to dispel a dominate or charm cast by a wizard might only suffer a +3 DC increase while trying to dispel an illusion he might suffer a +10. A cleric attempting to identify (with detect magic) a psychokinetic power would probably suffer a +10 but a wizards summoning spell would be increase by only +3 or 5.

This has worked well for me to develop a feeling of difference without resurrecting the 2e psionics problem.

DC

 

[Kalanyr]

I have no problem with Psi is Different, except when its not Psi is Different , its Psi is Superior (which is what Psi is Different usually ends up with, since Psi comes out later it tends to have a few powers which flatten magic, whereas magic doesn't have anything that flattens Psi since psi didn't exist at the time).

The reason your assumptions are getting ripped on is because the conclusions have the exact same responses those conclusions make Psionics too powerful compared to magic IMO. (Whether or not the Psi Handbook supports this doesn't really bother me,I banned psionic in my 2e campaigin for exactly that, at least its easier to tweak this edition.)

 

[Nifft]

Well, I'm definately NOT aiming for "Psi Is Better", just a "Psi Is Alien" feeling. The Psionic people have very little defense against Magic, for example.

-- N