YALF! (Yet Another LA Fix)

[Will]

I hate LA. I don't like the weird effects it has (I'm 5 HD for sleep? Sigh. Ok), I don't like the effects at low level, where one level of HP represent a huge percentage, and so on.

Well, after a lot of experimentation over the years... I think I have something viable.
This takes a few clever handwaves, so ... bear with me:

The first step:
In chargen, stats start at 8 (as usual), but point costs are flat; an 18 costs 10 points. Maximum ability score is 18.
36 points
This is very generous, you can tweak, but gives more room to play.

Racial modifiers apply to ability score maximum... but your starting score is still 8. It still takes 6 points to reach a score of 14, but for one character that might be a max.
Cost after 18 is doubled. If your race has +4 Str, a 22 Str costs 18 points.
You can lower a score below 8 to get extra points (and have to, if new maximum is below 8), but generally shouldn't lower it more than 8 + racial penalties. So a race with -4 Cha can lower Cha to 4, getting 4 points to spend elsewhere.

Races with LA due to stats reduce LA (this reduction is tricky; more later)

Why?
If you are playing an ogre cleric with Str: 18, should you really pay LA for the advantage of +10 Str, when you aren't actually any better than a human cleric with Str: 18?
If the stats are the same, the effect is the same. That seems more balanced than the attempt to embrace dice scaling and such in the core game.


Second step:
+1 Level Adjustment = 8 ability score points
This principle means that the 'value' of a LA is judged to be (roughly) balanced with the value of 8 points of ability score.

Based on that, races with LA can be changed to having a handicap; +2 LA becomes -16 ability score points. You are effectively taking about a -1 penalty on everything (attacks, saves, skills, hit points per level) in exchange for racial abilities.

corollary:
The doubling cost of ability scores above 18 become a self-policing LA; if your race has +8 Str, you pay the effective +1 LA (which equals 8 points) if and only if you actually bother to maximize Strength.
The benefit builds on the earlier point about an ogre cleric; this gives you considerably more freedom to play something unusual without being ‘punished’ for it, and at the same time ensures that someone leveraging a high score pays for the privilege.



To come... calculating what LA 'should' be and creating PC races out of monsters

 

[Steinhauser]

If you are playing an ogre cleric with Str: 18, should you really pay LA for the advantage of +10 Str, when you aren't actually any better than a human cleric with Str: 18?

You get 5 extra feet of reach and can use bigger weapons, so you've already got the potential to deal far more damage. Not to mention you're twice as good as a human at all those size-based tricks (grappling, tripping, knockin' doors down, etc.)

In short, it's not all stats. Often stats are the least of the contributing factors when it comes to LA.

 

[Will]

Creating PC races from monsters
First, it’s useful to strip out racial HD from the listings in the SRD.
Racial HDs are effectively weak classes that help balance racial abilities. As such, some of them increase LA when removed, because they were there originally to pay off some of the LA.
Racial HD worth +1/2 LA (4 points) per HD: Animal, Construct, Giant, Humanoid, Plant, Undead
Racial HD worth +1/4 LA (2 points) per HD: Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid
(Dragon and outsider are powerful enough not to be worth any LA, haven't looked carefully at others)
So a race with +1 LA and 4 HD of Monstrous Humanoid is actually a +2 LA race without HD.

If you don’t mind the normal LA system and want to run chargen normally, you can stop here. You can have characters use racial HD to pay off LA going forward. A race with +2 LA can ‘buy it off’ with 8 HD of Monstrous Humanoid.
If you are interested in using the previous idea about ‘pay as you go’ for ability scores, it’s necessary to separate out the core assumptions about what racial modifiers cost in LA.
It may be useful to ignore or remove any spellcasting levels to provide a blank slate, or perhaps use the appropriate caster class as an additional favored class.

There are three steps, using the LA determined above: calculate LA by subtracting estimate of ability scores, calculate LA by estimating value of non-ability score characteristics, compare the two results.

1) Estimate value of ability modifiers and subtract

Roughly speaking, only the highest positive bonus matters. In the core game, penalties don’t matter as much because you can choose to focus elsewhere. In the pay as you go system, penalties don’t matter as much because they affect score maximum only (which provides more flexibility than core system).
Take the highest bonus, add 4 points if there is a second bonus of equal size, or add 2 points if there are a few credible bonuses, and ignore any small bonuses. If the bonuses are a few +2s and -2s, figure it to be 0 points.
Divide the points calculated by 8 to arrive at a LA adjustment (8 points per LA, again) Any fractions, nudge it by looking at the race as a whole (judgment call).
The logic here is that ability score penalties can be worked around, and the above system minimizes their direct influence. It's more important how much the monster can break the system with high bonuses.
Subtract this estimate from LA. This is the first estimate of LA.

2) LA of everything but ability scores
+1 natural armor = +2 points (or +1/4 LA)
Large size = +8 points (+1 LA)
Construct, Ooze, Plant, Undead type = +16 points (+2 LA)
Elemental type = +8 points (+1 LA)
+1 point for each natural attack (roughly)
Other abilities are harder to categorize, so there may be a gap
Total this up, divide by 8 to find approximate LA.

If the two values are equal, it’s a good bet you have an accurate result. If the values diverge, it may be obvious what special abilities might account for the difference. If the two values are drastically different, then the system has failed you. Sorry.

This should result in a relatively fair LA for playing a first level member of the race. To generate a character, use racial modifiers for maximum score values, use race type, size, special abilities, and set starting ability points to 36 - (8 x LA).

(examples follow)

 

[Will]

Ogre
Ogres from SRD as PC race have:
+10 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha
Large size
4 levels of giant
+5 natural armor bonus
LA +2

LA:
4 levels of giant convert to +2 LA, so total LA is +4.
Looking at ability bonuses: +10 Str is highest bonus. +4 Con is reasonably useful, so say another +2 points, or a total value of 12. This is about +1 1/2 LA. For comparison purposes, it’s helpful to keep the fraction at this point. Estimated LA is 4 - 1.5, or 2.5 LA.
Calculating basic abilities, we have Large size and +5 natural armor bonus. Large size is worth 8 points (+1 LA), +5 natural armor is 10 points, or a total of 18 points. This is 2.25 LA.
While not precisely the same, this is a pretty close mesh. The ogre’s abilities are quite simple, so it seems best to work with the second result.
One could round down, but since the new system uses raw points, we can just use a racial handicap of -18 rather than ‘2.25 LA.’
A PC ogre has max Strength of 28, Dexterity of 16, Constitution of 22, Intelligence of 14, Wisdom of 18, and Charisma of 14.
Size is Large, +5 natural armor.
Scores start at 8, with 18 ability score points (normal 36 - handicap of 18).

The ogre is likely to want to take giant HD to get better stats.

 

[Will]

Pixie
-4 Str, +8 Dex, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +6 Cha
Small size
Fly 60’
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks
Bonus feats: Dodge, Weapon finesse
+1 natural armor
Spell-like abilities
DR 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, SR 15+level
LA +4 (no irresistible dance)
LA:
With no racial levels, this is easier; +4 LA

Estimate of ability scores: highest bonus is +8 Dex, so starting with 8 points. Normally it would take another +8 before bumping this by 4 points, but having +4 to +6 on all mental stats sure qualifies. We’re at 12 points. Another -1.5 LA, so estimated value of 2.5 LA.
Looking at raw abilities, the Fey type has no particularly strong advantage. +1 natural armor is worth 2 points.
The other abilities are harder to categorize. SR is the easiest; it’s worth at least +1 LA (or 8 points), particularly since it scales and starts at 15. 2 bonus feats can be low-balled at 2 points.
Flight is tricky, but sticking to core assumptions it’s worth about 1/2 LA or 4 points. Greater invisibility is amazingly useful, so probably about 8 points.
The total so far is 24, or 3 LA.
These are a lot less sure of a calculation. Given there are still more abilities, 3 LA seems a good conservative estimate. The first estimate of ability scores was a bit overzealous.
(One complication in these calculations is that there are diminishing return effects. A high level monster, for example, can have DR 10/cold iron with no appreciable increase to power.)

Playing a PC pixie, minus spell-like abilities, would be a hefty -24 penalty. The character would start with only 12 points to divide between ability scores, and would definitely want some Fey HD.

 

[Runestar]

What incentive would there be to play a monster race if I can't get all the benefits that come with it?

 

[Will]

What do you mean?

If you mean the spell-like abilities of the pixie, that's a handful of sorcerer spells. Seems more 'appropriate' to just be a sorcerer pixie.

 

[Sylrae]

Maybe you want to be a pixie rogue and just make use of those few SLAs. Dont have the books or SRD in front of me though so I don't know what SLAs they get.

but I know I've played a Succubus before and enjoyed the SLAs without being a Sorcerer.

Your "LA" fix still doesn't fix the LA + Caster = Worthless problem.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Will]

Sylrae:
I actually have a fix for the LA + caster problem, but it's rather more involved; essentially, creating 'reduced value' caster classes (3/4 value, 1/2 value).

I have some reduced classes based around Pathfinder balance (since casters have a number of extras you can strip out).

Basically, for arcanists, the following should work reasonably:
Version 1:
No extras of the class, full spellcasting advancement, Hedge penalty of 1/2 level (round up) to caster level for all spell calculations (duration, damage, dispel checks, etc.). Practiced Spellcaster does not apply to this penalty.

This version makes for casters whose spells have reduced effects, but they can cast top-tier spells. These casters have no problem with spell saves, but SR is a real problem. Good spell choices can make a big difference.

Version 2:
No extras of the class. Caster level is 4/5 Reduced Caster level, round down. (Or level - 1/5 level, or 'drop a level at 1, 6, 11, 16')
Caster level for all calculations, however, is based on Reduced Caster level.

These casters hit with full force, but don't have the best spells available to them. They will probably want to supplement their abilities with scrolls and possibly staves; a staff can leverage their full caster level to good effect.


IMO, these seem to balance reasonably as 'half strength classes.' Consider the mechanics of Mystic Theurges, Eldritch Knights, and other 'half X, half Y' PrCs out there.