Yay Failing Book Stores?

[Garmorn]

Well, you've just revealed a potential justification for you to buy more books at B&M stores, in your "enlightened self-interest."

You don't want to be forced to buy eBooks only, you need to support places that won't be selling that many eBooks. Buy more stuff from the sellers who sell what you want now and in the future. Don't buy as much stuff from sellers who threaten your desires for the future.

Yes, it will cost more, but you're not just buying the book in your hand, you're buying time to continue having real books you can hold in your hands.

The more you buy from Amazon, etc., the more you hasten the advent of the paperless library...

WoW. You need to tell Baen Books because they give away free E copies of their books to increase their paper sells. Here is proof: baencd at the Fifth Imperium . Now how does my buy a paper book and not buying a Kendal reduce the market for paper books?

 

[ferratus]

I have to say that the non-fiction titles in the Barnes and Noble I visited in the US was a lot more intellectually respectable than the crap I find in Chapters and MacNally Robinson here in Canada. The history and religion sections in particular are filled with conspiracy-laden new age crap.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ummmmm.... last time I checked, Amazon sells a whole crap-ton of paper books. I'd say if you want paper books to stick around, keep buying paper books (from whichever vendor suits your needs best).

WoW. You need to tell Baen Books because they give away free E copies of their books to increase their paper sells. Here is proof: baencd at the Fifth Imperium . Now how does my buy a paper book and not buying a Kendal reduce the market for paper books?

My point about buying online was in direct response to someone who was concerned that as online sellers gain market share and B&M stores continue to disappear, they will have more power to drive the book market to an entirely electronic model. This would be termed oligopoly- a market dominated by a small number of large retailers- and its nearly as bad for competition and consumers as a monopoly.

If, as the poster asserted, that dwindling #s of B&M stores is a major concern for that reason, it is logical that he spend more money at the B&M stores.

As for giving away samples- that is an effective marketing technique. However, don't fool yourself- each copy given away IS a copy not sold. A copy of a product that is given away thusly will be reflected in the company's ledgers as a debit- an expense- under a company's advertising/marketing/promotions budget- a reflection of its true nature as an economic opportunity cost. However, it is an economic opportunity cost that is calculated to be more effective than other forms of advertising- ads, commercials, coupons, etc.- which it usually is.

 

[Garmorn]

My point about buying online was in direct response to someone who was concerned that as online sellers gain market share and B&M stores continue to disappear, they will have more power to drive the book market to an entirely electronic model. This would be termed oligopoly- a market dominated by a small number of large retailers- and its nearly as bad for competition and consumers as a monopoly.

If, as the poster asserted, that dwindling #s of B&M stores is a major concern for that reason, it is logical that he spend more money at the B&M stores.

As for giving away samples- that is an effective marketing technique. However, don't fool yourself- each copy given away IS a copy not sold. A copy of a product that is given away thusly will be reflected in the company's ledgers as a debit- an expense- under a company's advertising/marketing/promotions budget- a reflection of its true nature as an economic opportunity cost. However, it is an economic opportunity cost that is calculated to be more effective than other forms of advertising- ads, commercials, coupons, etc.- which it usually is.

You need to study Beans Books data. They say and show numbers. E-copies given out on CD in the back of books that contain 10 or more novels is their method. They state right on the CD that you can copy and distribute with out copy right worries as long as there is no charge.

The internet and electronic publishing is changing the rules. Every book that they put up for free down load shows a permanent increase in sells of hard copies.

How does this cost them an economic opportunity? How does match the traditional Knowles that give away a copy of something reduces its total sales and every free copy cost the producer?

 

[Krensky]

As for giving away samples- that is an effective marketing technique. However, don't fool yourself- each copy given away IS a copy not sold. A copy of a product that is given away thusly will be reflected in the company's ledgers as a debit- an expense- under a company's advertising/marketing/promotions budget- a reflection of its true nature as an economic opportunity cost. However, it is an economic opportunity cost that is calculated to be more effective than other forms of advertising- ads, commercials, coupons, etc.- which it usually is.

That's not how the Baen free library (based on Jim Baen and Eric Flint's comments) or the Baen CD (especially on the site referenced). Baen gives out CDs as promo tools and in the back of hardbacks. These CDs explicitly allow, even encourage you to make copies and share. The fifthimperium site is not run by Baen. How exactly do the accountants enter those as expenses? The free library downloads could be counted, but how do you distinguish between indviduals? Baen doesn't treat their ebooks as a one format per purchase thing, and they have a HTML version that you can read on line, so their downloads count is far in excess of anything in touch with the number of 'actual' books the freebies are analogous to.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You need to study Beans Books data. They say and show numbers. E-copies given out on CD in the back of books that contain 10 or more novels is their method. They state right on the CD that you can copy and distribute with out copy right worries as long as there is no charge.

I don't need to look at Baen's data- I've seen the data from other retailers.

Giving away samples is nothing new. Recording companies have been doing so since the dawn of recorded music. Restaurants have been doing it since there have been restaurants.

(Drug dealers have been doing so since there have been drugs.)

The internet and electronic publishing is changing the rules. Every book that they put up for free down load shows a permanent increase in sells of hard copies.

No, they're just changing the costs. Their sales still follow the same economic principles as everyone else's. Supply/Demand. Debits/Credits. Revenues/Costs.

How does this cost them an economic opportunity? How does match the traditional Knowles that give away a copy of something reduces its total sales and every free copy cost the producer?

The cost to them is the individual lost sale- the person who receives the free copy has no inherent need to purchase a copy. That the recipient may actually do so is immaterial. As far as the laws of economics or the rules of accounting go- its a cost. And if you were so fortunate to look at Baen's financials as opposed to just their sales figures, you'd see that those freebies are reflected as a cost on their ledgers, just like companies all over the world do with the freebies they hand out.

But its a cost that is no different than anything else in the company's marketing budget. They're calculating that that individual lost sale will turn into sales to others, just like another company justifies the cost of an ad in the local paper or a commercial during the Superbowl.

IOW, its just another example of the old business adage, "You have to spend money to make money."

I won't send you to an Economics textbook for a definition of "opportunity cost"- that wouldn't be nice- so I'm supplying you with a couple I found:

1. The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action.

2. The difference in return between a chosen investment and one that is necessarily passed up. Say you invest in a stock and it returns a paltry 2% over the year. In placing your money in the stock, you gave up the opportunity of another investment - say, a risk-free government bond yielding 6%. In this situation, your opportunity costs are 4% (6%-2%).

The alternative foregone by the company is doing a standard advertising campaign and not giving away freebies in an effort to sell books. This is an effective way of doing business.

By giving away freebies, however, the company is gambling that those free copies will generate more sales than a standard ad campaign. For Baen, its working. It doesn't work for all products, though.

Imagine Mercedes Benz trying this technique, for instance.

 

[Garmorn]

I don't need to look at Baen's data- I've seen the data from other retailers.

Giving away samples is nothing new. Recording companies have been doing so since the dawn of recorded music. Restaurants have been doing it since there have been restaurants.

(Drug dealers have been doing so since there have been drugs.)



No, they're just changing the costs. Their sales still follow the same economic principles as everyone else's. Supply/Demand. Debits/Credits. Revenues/Costs.



The cost to them is the individual lost sale- the person who receives the free copy has no inherent need to purchase a copy. That the recipient may actually do so is immaterial. As far as the laws of economics or the rules of accounting go- its a cost. And if you were so fortunate to look at Baen's financials as opposed to just their sales figures, you'd see that those freebies are reflected as a cost on their ledgers, just like companies all over the world do with the freebies they hand out.

But its a cost that is no different than anything else in the company's marketing budget. They're calculating that that individual lost sale will turn into sales to others, just like another company justifies the cost of an ad in the local paper or a commercial during the Superbowl.

IOW, its just another example of the old business adage, "You have to spend money to make money."

I won't send you to an Economics textbook for a definition of "opportunity cost"- that wouldn't be nice- so I'm supplying you with a couple I found:


The alternative foregone by the company is doing a standard advertising campaign and not giving away freebies in an effort to sell books. This is an effective way of doing business.

By giving away freebies, however, the company is gambling that those free copies will generate more sales than a standard ad campaign. For Baen, its working. It doesn't work for all products, though.

Imagine Mercedes Benz trying this technique, for instance.

Correct it works for the products that can be delivered on line such as books. Other retailers have never done a study. Only published opinions. Bean is not the only one saying this method works for a limited group of products. It also works to a more limited version is found in software sales as demo's

 

[ggroy]

I have to say that the non-fiction titles in the Barnes and Noble I visited in the US was a lot more intellectually respectable than the crap I find in Chapters and MacNally Robinson here in Canada. The history and religion sections in particular are filled with conspiracy-laden new age crap.

In the towns I've lived in over the years, I thought the Borders stores had a better selection than Barnes and Noble for the more "intellectually respectable" stuff I was interested in.

For Chapters, I've found it varied from store to store. Over the years I've found that the Chapters stores which were in the middle of town and/or right next to a large university campus, frequently had a better selection of "intellectual respectable" titles. The ones in the suburbs, had less of a selection of "intellectually respectable" stuff. (The same can probably be said of Borders and B&N stores which were in a suburb and/or not next to a large university campus).

 

[Nai_Calus]

I love Half Price Books. Picked up Dungeon Delve for $14

I'm still kicking myself for not scrounging up the money when the one by me had the 4E DMG and MM for eight bucks each, but I was too broke at the time.

I did however pick up the Battlestar Galactica RPG from them the other day, when they had that for eight bucks.

I buy books used mostly, since most of the ones I'm looking for these days are out of print. Still in-print ones I'll buy from Borders with a coupon if they're paperback, or Amazon if they're hardcover/I'm buying enough for free shipping.

I don't buy PDFs and can't stand using them or reading them except to evaluate a potential RPG book purchase if I can't find it at a store/it's out of print, and e-readers like Kindle or ebooks on a smartphone do nothing at all for me either. I want paper and being able to flip through the book and leave a dozen bookmarks for quick reference.

 

[drothgery]

You need to study Beans Books data. They say and show numbers. E-copies given out on CD in the back of books that contain 10 or more novels is their method. They state right on the CD that you can copy and distribute with out copy right worries as long as there is no charge.

I like what Baen's doing, but I worry a lot that the economics of their current approach are going to blow up given cheap, good e-readers (which are clearly coming Real Soon Now, given the existence of pretty good, affordable for obsessive book-buyers e-readers at this time and a lot of activity in the space). When dead tree sales dwarf e-book sales and electronic screens are decidedly inferior to paper, what they're doing works. I'm not sure does in a universe where e-books are the majority of sales and paper books are the niche product.